[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Historian', 'O')ne you "band" up and manage to keep the warlords away, I suspect there will be a certain temptation to become warlords yourselves. I will bet that a few years of hard life marked by constant toil, disappointments, deaths, etc, will make modern day ethics go out of the window.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m wondering how that psycho rules without help from a lot of other psychos.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m wondering how that psycho rules without help from a lot of other psychos.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Historian', 'F')eel proud in your role as a "bandit"* contributing to reducing the carrying capacity of the land and increasing the chances of a catastrophic collapse into dieoff.

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'H')ere is one way it was done. Here is another way it's been done at a lower level.

[SeaGypsy]

LH labelled me a 'bandit' as a non supporter of his totallitarianist regime. "Those who are not with us are gainst us" is the core of his argument here.
His next response to me on the Medina system "How would those outside the walls be prevented from forming against the city?" Is no less valid now than it would be in a post collapse Medina style system.
My reading of the history of Medina is that there were extremely few crimes committed inside the walled city for the following reasons: 1/ The Law of the city was very clearly explained to all entering. 2/ Punshments were extremely harsh (cutting off limbs/ execution) 3/ The Law had consensus support, therefore all citizens would not hesitate to report a crime. 4/ The city was a kinder place to be than the wilderness, visitors would not want to lose their right to visit and trade, take refuge etc.

As far as the actual accomplishments required for 'power down' I don't believe any kind of Statist totalitarianism will cut it. There is massive inefficiency in our current systems, this should be the 1st measure taken by any realistic government; cutting out obvious and blatent inefficiency. In conjuction a massive education campaign on the reality of resource constraints would start the waking up process necessary for broad support of the necessary privations.

If civilisation is to prevail beyond peak oil etc. It must do so by being simply appealing to the ordinary person, by being 'nice'. Any attempt at setting up a 'sousveillance' state is bound to fail because of the natural resistance and distrust of such powers. The idea is fundamentally ugly, therefore will fail from within if not by attack from outside.

[pablonite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '&')quot;Thanks for the waste of time, your a tool." - pablonite

[Last_Historian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A') bunch of individuals acting independently is not a "system" so you can't actually have an "anarchic system with no rule of law." Such a thing simply can't and doesn't exist, as far as I can tell. You can't call it a "system," certainly.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'H')ere is one way it was done. ... Here is another way it's been done at a lower level.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Historian', ' ')Your inability to read carefully or use your browser's search function is not my problem.

[Last_Historian]

@Ludi,$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')lease describe how you are contributing to increasing the carrying capacity of the land and how you are increasing the chances of avoiding a catastrophic collapse.

[Last_Historian]

@Pretorian,

Our discussion is neither productive nor enjoyable (to me anyway), nor is it of any use to other forum members. I see no point in continuing it, and will not be doing so.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I got the impression you all were talking about warlords arising from anarchy, not warlords arising via the "lawful" state.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'Y')ou seem to push a kind of Anne Frank thesis in these sorts of threads, that people are fundamentally good.

[Jotapay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Historian', 'A')s I already mentioned, this has precisely nothing to do with Green Communism. Shouting is not going to convince me to answer irrelevant questions.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')Zombie hordes therefore can't happen, or at least they can't happen in your neck of the woods because you get along with your neighbors. Of course, everyone's belly is still full. You can't expect the future to be the same as the present.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')I don't, but I don't expect my neighbors to suddenly become vicious killers just because we're all hungry.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Last_Historian', ' ')I do not think anyone else has workable alternatives that could keep society together on the downslope without resorting to coercive politics.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'M')aybe it's way down your list of concerns, but maybe it should be high on the list of, let's say, an inner city new yorker's concerns.

[mcgowanjm]

Cities will exhibit Zombie Hordes first. Takes a crowd. Rural troops will be sent in to stifle.

Stoneleigh: The headlines will get much worse from here. Negative t-bill rates are coming in a much bigger way, but always less negative than would yield a low real rate of interest, so the liquidity trap persists. Negative t-bill rates will make cash on hand look better than bonds, even of the shortest duration, as cash won't have a built in depreciation. T-bills will still be a good deal relative to most things, but cash on hand will be better. That will increase the likelihood of cash withdrawals leading to bank runs.
Welcome to the perfect financial storm

And per Ludi's post. Why do you want to 'keep society together'. When society only helps the Top 50,000 Households? 91 Million Americans are at or near the already 'low balled' poverty line.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'P')ersonally I think there is no shortage of people on the Zombie Horde bandwagon here at po.com.