[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Olle', 'O')ops, that was impressive, but it also means that you need a 3-phase plug in your home. Not a major problem if you have a Villa

[americandream]

Blimmin poms

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')rying to convey irony in an international website seems rather pointless, dunnit guv'nor. I go down my local for a pint of irony, I come here to be informed, mate.
.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '
')how is $4/gallon a watershed moment but $3/gallon cheap? When it was under $2/gallon, sure, that was cheap, but if $4/gallon is a watershed moment, isn't $3/gallon at least on the expensive side?

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')o if a typical jolt of electricity at the dryer outlet delivers +/- 40% of the energy embodied in the primary fuel, I wonder what the final efficiency of a plug in car works out to?

[americandream]

I wonder what the fossil fuel efficiency will be for a world order transitioning from a Western dominated infrastructure of one billion internal combustion vehicles into a global infrastructure of six billion EV's sold through your local Walmart, K-Mart, Safeway, Warehouse and other assorted superstores worldwide. Want to buy the American Dream anyone?

Useful link for those who have yet to grasp the full portent of China's capitalism:

http://walmartwatch.com/blog/archives/w ... pitalists/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')o if a typical jolt of electricity at the dryer outlet delivers +/- 40% of the energy embodied in the primary fuel, I wonder what the final efficiency of a plug in car works out to?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '[')url=http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/559.pdf]Here is a study[/url] that I think says electric vehicles use less fossil fuel unless fossil fuel is used to generate electricity.

[kjmclark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'I') could sue you for publicly bullying someone with dicksleckseer

[Pops]

Somewhere when I was looking for that paper from Argone I saw congress was trying to find a way to come up with mileage for PEVs, sort of like the rating on electric appliances.

[yesplease]

There're all sorts of ideas kicking around about how they should be rated. I think anything that's effectively a hybrid (e-rev my ass) should just have the mpg posted like a normal car, and anything that can do all electric should also have the wh/mile figures included for city/highway w/ range estimated from pack size. A pure EV would have something like 150Wh/mile city, 250Wh/mile highway, and 190Wh/mile combined or whatever, w/ the city/highway/combined range based on the pack size, and a PHEV like the volt would have that plus it's hybrid mileage in the same format we use now.

[energyhoggin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Olle', 'O')ops, that was impressive, but it also means that you need a 3-phase plug in your home. Not a major problem if you have a Villa

[JustaGirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('energyhoggin', '
')
I saw something on tv about charging problems and time involved, one scientist came up with an idea and stated that you could pickup a freshly charged battery or battery pack at your local charging station and exchange it with your dead battery, sort of like a fillup...

[JustaGirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('janeword', 'S')orry folks, but electricity requires oil, gas, or coal to generate. We aren't getting near enough from wind, solar, or any other renewable. Just because the power points in your house are almost invisible doesn't mean there isn't fuel burning at the generator.
Jane in Kentucky

[Gerben]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JustaGirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('janeword', 'S')orry folks, but electricity requires oil, gas, or coal to generate. We aren't getting near enough from wind, solar, or any other renewable. Just because the power points in your house are almost invisible doesn't mean there isn't fuel burning at the generator.
Jane in Kentucky

[Jonathan_Hoag]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Guess what, an empty gas tank is essentially $0 a mile to purchase (whatever the cost of the sheet metal is), vs. the cost of the battery pack, and that's what counts the most.

[mcgowanjm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jonathan_Hoag', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')Guess what, an empty gas tank is essentially $0 a mile to purchase (whatever the cost of the sheet metal is), vs. the cost of the battery pack, and that's what counts the most.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mcgowanjm', 'T')he problem is the Power Grid can't possibly handle the load and the entire transport industry has to be retrofitted.

[EnergyUnlimited]

So what is a progress with this new Chinese EV model?
Where it is coming to market?
Any concrete news or just a hot air?

Seems to be Western money driven investor scam:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10315928-54.html

[yesplease]

It's probably going to be the same as all the other EVs. Build a few for testing, and if demand looks good, either due to people wanting them or oil prices going up, build more. Otherwise, shelve it for now. Everyone's hopping on the EV bandwagon in terms of small runs for fleet testing because they don't want to get locked out of the tech by someone. Toyota was way ahead of the curve w/ hybrid patents and now everyone either has to license their own stuff w/ Toyota (Ford/Nissan), or build hybrids that get relatively poor mileage (Honda, probably GM).

[jaman9]

Yeah, nice try, comparing 1800's trains with modern cars? why don't you do it all the way around: 1900-1910 cars vs the top of the line bullet train?
The fact is, if you were to compare both transports at their full potential (e.g. full train vs. equivalent number of cars, eg ~about 1000 cars vs 1 train) the cars would be by far much more polluting and less efficient on the fuel side.










mold removal portland

[JRP3]

Some EV info:
Tesla Roadster 53 kwh pack, 900 lbs. 240 mile range, has gone over 300 miles driven slowly. 230 volt 50 amp plug can recharge the entire pack in less than 5 hours.
Solectria Sunrise went over 300 miles 15 years ago with NiMH batteries. Could do even better today with Lithium.
A123 and Altairnano cells can take much higher rate charging than that.
My 11.5 kwh pack cost me $4300 including shipping from China. Think large manufacturers might get a better price than that? I'd bet actual cost is half that.
Slow driving drawing 200 wh/mi could get me 50 miles of range or so, considering efficiency losses.
Normal driving drawing 300 wh/mi should get me 35 miles.
The grid here is a good mix of hydro, natural gas, coal, and wind.
Plenty of studies have shown plenty of nighttime charging capacity available right now.
Refining one gallon of gas takes about 5 kw of electricity, so every gallon you don't burn frees up that much electrical capacity.
Nissan Leaf should be going on sale end of this year, full EV, 100 mile range, probably around $30K
Swapping battery packs will be costly, and unnecessary, and Better Place will likely fail, as it should, since it offers no real value.
Batteries that can fast charge already exist, they can last thousands of cycles, they are constantly improving every year, and they are getting cheaper every year. In a properly designed, lightweight, aerodynamic vehicle they can provide over 200 miles of range.
If the economy doesn't completely tank there is a good opportunity for low cost EV's to take over a large portion of transportation needs.