[deMolay]

Someone has to pay for the Bloated Gubmints entitlements. http://www.oftwominds.com/blogoct09/cri ... 10-09.html

[Novus]

The game is not rigged or anything. Care to roll.

[Outcast_Searcher]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this article's tone and content.

I hate government constantly raising taxes and overspending, but government actually having meaningful fines for crimes and enforcing them is something that should have happened long ago.

And whining that people shouldn't have to pay for minor crimes like parking tickets and driving without insurance doesn't cut it with me. Citizenship implies responsibility. Can't behave responsibly? Then pay a painful fine, and learn something.

Can't do the fine? Then don't do the crime.

Too many times I hear, for example, some waitress whining in a diner about how she had to go to court for driving without insurance, but the judge let her off. Yeah, too much spent for cigarettes, liquor, etc. to buy auto insurance, so *I* get to pay for it with uninsured motorist insurance.
(And what is the incentive for her to behave responsibly again?)

Or the guy whining about paying a $30 fine for parking in a handicapped space (he's 30ish and apparnently in perfect health). In a rational system, the $1000 fine he'd pay might convince him to park in a legal spot. (Or, perhaps 20 handicapped folks could pound him with their canes, if he couldn't afford the fine).

So - sorry, but whining that citizen irresponsibility is dandy, but government irresponsibility is terrible makes no sense to me. After all, WE ARE the government.

[Novus]

The article does come off a bit whinny but I have heard of people getting locked up for weeds on the lawn or ridding a bike without a helmet or simply walking around without an ID card. I don't have a lot of sympathy for idiots driving with no insurance. There are legitimate complaints of the police really harassing the poor for what really amounts to shakedown money.

[TreeFarmer]

While the author's tone may be questionable his message is right on the money. My ultra cautious wife, for the first time ever, mentioned to me that she has been seeing the police catching speeders at the end of a school zone in our town and that I should be careful when driving through that area. Now. by the end of a school zone I mean that people are past the school, kids, etc and are almost to the "end of the school zone sign." On top of that, it is a 15 MPH zone so it is extremely easy to get 5 mph over and be in jeopardy.

I am expecting to see more and more evidence of all types of fines being increased greatly due to local governments trying to raise extra revenue no matter what the cost to the citizens. As this recession deepens, and I think it is deepening, I expect to read of some very ugly incidents.

TF

[Sixstrings]

It's true, the poor are the ones getting squeezed at both ends in this "greatest recession."

Why? Well, it's easy.. the poor, hungry, and destitute are so demoralized and occupied with day to day survival that they don't complain -- they're easy targets. And more importantly, the poor don't have money to contribute to campaign funds.

The author is right, this has gotten completely out of hand. It's really easy to think "well, their fault you shouldn't let your insurance lapse and therefore your auto registration." It's easy to say that, unless you have yourself experienced personal financial devastation. Believe it or not, it can get so bad that the choice becomes "food or car insurance," or "car repair or car insurance," or "rent or car insurance," or "water bill or car insurance," or "infected tooth extraction or car insurance."

It is a really bad, nasty trap that millions of people fall into. Yeah, so some would say give up the car and walk. Well, jobs are scarce and in most communities bus service is very spotty (try putting that on your application, that you ride a bus -- good luck to you). So quitting your job and giving up your car in the hopes that you can find a job within walking or biking distance is a very hard choice to make.

And so, this is how it happens that the car insurance ends up lapsing. And then an email goes to the state and voila, your license is suspended -- cough up $400 sucka, PLUS proof of new insurance.

This abuse of the poor is only going to get worse -- you see, once you fall out of the middle class and into the underclass you no longer count for anything. Nobody speaks for the working poor or the unemployed, nobody gives a crap about them. This is THE American mindset -- an American couldn't care less about those without, until he himself is without.

[gollum]

A lot of these fines are far out of preportion for the offense, I suspect as time goes by resentment to all authority will increase. How will the national health bill go over that requires citizens already on the edge to enrich private insurance companies?

[MarkJ]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
The author is right, this has gotten completely out of hand. It's really easy to think "well, their fault you shouldn't let your insurance lapse and therefore your auto registration." It's easy to say that, unless you have yourself experienced personal financial devastation. Believe it or not, it can get so bad that the choice becomes "food or car insurance," or "car repair or car insurance," or "rent or car insurance," or "water bill or car insurance," or "infected tooth extraction or car insurance."

It is a really bad, nasty trap that millions of people fall into. Yeah, so some would say give up the car and walk. Well, jobs are scarce and in most communities bus service is very spotty (try putting that on your application, that you ride a bus -- good luck to you). So quitting your job and giving up your car in the hopes that you can find a job within walking or biking distance is a very hard choice to make.

And so, this is how it happens that the car insurance ends up lapsing. And then an email goes to the state and voila, your license is suspended -- cough up $400 sucka, PLUS proof of new insurance.

[gollum]

So at what point does this start to hit the middle class? And at what point do the authorities start to be seen as an oppressive occupational army?

[Jotapay]

Well, I'm glad I'll have a place to sleep when it all falls apart!

[gollum]

Geralde Celente predicted all this, with chaos and discontent to follow.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'S')o at what point does this start to hit the middle class? And at what point do the authorities start to be seen as an oppressive occupational army?

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'S')o at what point does this start to hit the middle class? And at what point do the authorities start to be seen as an oppressive occupational army?

[perdition79]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Outcast_Searcher', 'T')oo many times I hear, for example, some waitress whining in a diner about how she had to go to court for driving without insurance, but the judge let her off. Yeah, too much spent for cigarettes, liquor, etc. to buy auto insurance, so *I* get to pay for it with uninsured motorist insurance.
(And what is the incentive for her to behave responsibly again?)

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', 'R')ead your words again and ask yourself "what is my incentive to continue to behave responsibly?" That's the scary part. People like me and you continue to either do right or not do at all, while others have no drive to be responsible at all. How long before enough people like us realize this and follow suit?

[gollum]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', 'R')ead your words again and ask yourself "what is my incentive to continue to behave responsibly?" That's the scary part. People like me and you continue to either do right or not do at all, while others have no drive to be responsible at all. How long before enough people like us realize this and follow suit?

[Gorm]

Am I getting this correctly,that a lot of posters here thinks that driving an uninsured car should be legal? Or a least not punished?

[EnergyUnlimited]

That is good question, Gorm.

Lets think about collapsing economy, where lack of ability to drive equals lack of job and (once benefits are gone - and time given these will be gone, even in Sweden) that equals lack of means to sustain family or may be even feed yourself.

So would you decide to starve or fail to pay insurance at that point?

Do you really think that insurance laws can be enforced once say 5%, 10%, 20% of families are unable to pay it but still must drive to earn a living?

Compulsory motor insurance is only a legal construct and will work only if substantial majority of population can easy afford it.

Once they cannot afford it in environment where driving is essential for earning your living, compulsory insurance construct will collapse by natural course of events.
Respective laws will either get ignored and finally scrapped or alternatively enforcement system will get sufficiently corrupt.

You will not lock 10 or 20% of population to prison (or confiscate their vehicles and so leave them to starve) because of some silly insurance laws.
And if you do, you will face a civil war pretty soon.

[Quinny]

For young drivers, the cost of insurance is often more than the cost of the car. Basic insurance should be included in road tax/fuel duties.

[EnergyUnlimited]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'F')or young drivers, the cost of insurance is often more than the cost of the car. Basic insurance should be included in road tax/fuel duties.