$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', 'E')xactly which mods are you talking about? and which items have they gone on about
which mods "constantly say nothing can be done but horde guns like they did in waco, and horde food/water like it was going out of style... encourage this behavior and completely ignore advancements in science that changes the equation that represents the problem that is peak oil. but most of all not while they say 'getting out of dodge' is the key"
I've refered to "getting out of dodge" as a key to my survival, but there is more to it than Peak Oil.
PeakOil is You
But why isn't anyone doing anything about it?
by TrueKaiser » Sat 30 Apr 2005, 02:08:52
well you kindly admitted your part of the 'get the heck out of dodge and fsck everyone else.' though your in some interesting company with jack and jato, though honestly i wouldn't trust any of you as far as i can throw you. if you run away with your tail between your legs for something like this how can i trust you to do what you need to do so the community can survive?
aaron and montequest while intelligent are in the 'ignoring changes to the peak oil equation' mainly using eroei, which in it's self is a useful tool. though they fail to take into account changes in science that effects it. which explains why a good amount of posts i see of theirs in the energy tech and conservation forums basically go along the lines of 'eroei says this wont work so it will never work'
in a interesting note jack is a prime example in two category's, this time though he is leading the 'hording guns etc' group though if spec_op was a mod then jack would fall into second place. honestly you get these things to protect yourself yet ironically it will most likely lead to your death either by others or by some accident.
please note that this is my opinion on the matter of how everyone here is handling the problem of peak oil and how they are not helping in solving it, this was not intended as a personal attacks. to be honest i would not count on any of you on helping solve the problem of peak oil, i would even go as far as saying some of you are part of the problem.
though that doesn't mean all of you are hopeless, small pox girl seems to have her head properly attached on her shoulders as far as i can tell.
and to be fair, i spend too much time thinking and little to none doing.
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping the common people quiet.
'Napoleon Bonaparte'
'Napoleon Bonaparte'
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TrueKaiser - Tar Sands
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by Schneider » Sat 30 Apr 2005, 14:02:49
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TrueKaiser', '
')
1. yes i have seen the 'planing for the future' room. it's mostly filled with 'how to buy the best guns' 'where to go to hide in a hole' or 'what food should i put in my massive horde of food.' hardly whats needed to survive whats coming for more then a few months at the most.(come on do you really think you and your family(at best) can defend that horde of food of yours from those who want it even though they might not need it?)
.
')
1. yes i have seen the 'planing for the future' room. it's mostly filled with 'how to buy the best guns' 'where to go to hide in a hole' or 'what food should i put in my massive horde of food.' hardly whats needed to survive whats coming for more then a few months at the most.(come on do you really think you and your family(at best) can defend that horde of food of yours from those who want it even though they might not need it?)
.
Psst,come here
--> Your personal library
Maybe it will change your mind
!?
Schneider
French-Canadian
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Schneider - Tar Sands
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by uNkNowN ElEmEnt » Sat 30 Apr 2005, 14:48:45
I have never said nor implied "fuck everyone else". Ever. you have criticized us for not helping out and changing things. first of all its much bigger than any one or ten of us, second you have no idea what kind of lives we lead. I, for one, only used to put my car on the road during the summer and recycle religiously and have for at least 15 years.
I have been without for more years than I care to say. I have rarely put my car on the road and have gone for periods of up to four years without insuring it. I have always recycled, cycled to work, volunteered in my community (mostly at my kids school with recycling, bottle drives, building playgrounds being the PAC treasurer and helping with landscaping and emergency preparing).
so now I am supposed to cry for or give up the little I have with the rich SUV drivers who will go without (if this is indeed the future) who have splashed me with icy sleet as they drove by on icy winter days as I walked to work?
your inaction is as daming to you as our supposed lack of helping others to fix things.
further since I live in a ghetto currently and have guarded half of my neighbours in jail (as a prison guard) its more than just the usual self-preservation to get out of town. I never said nor implied that I would let everyone else go to hell. I picked a place where there is more community spirit so I can pitch in and learn as much as I have to contribute.
Spec-op is obviously very knowledgeable about guns and such. He is not a moderator and its rather uncouth to be mentioning him. He and Jack have valid responses not just because those are their feelings but because they also represent a large percent of the population.
If monte and aaron are skeptical about eroi, In my oppinion its more because they have more knowledge. They were skeptical about peak oil and now they apply that same rational skepticism to optomistic claims that technology will save us when its been seen that each and every claim has been shot down. It gives their opinions more weight becuase they will search out and give objective oppinions about the different alternatives. I value that highly.
Just cause you seem to believe that technology and other resources will save us, fine but the rest of us are entitled to our oppinions too and does it really warrant a flame thread?
Its all the responses such as they are that will give us an idea of how people will react because each of us represents a frame of thought that will be larger than life if and when oil peaks. live long and prosper.
I have been without for more years than I care to say. I have rarely put my car on the road and have gone for periods of up to four years without insuring it. I have always recycled, cycled to work, volunteered in my community (mostly at my kids school with recycling, bottle drives, building playgrounds being the PAC treasurer and helping with landscaping and emergency preparing).
so now I am supposed to cry for or give up the little I have with the rich SUV drivers who will go without (if this is indeed the future) who have splashed me with icy sleet as they drove by on icy winter days as I walked to work?
your inaction is as daming to you as our supposed lack of helping others to fix things.
further since I live in a ghetto currently and have guarded half of my neighbours in jail (as a prison guard) its more than just the usual self-preservation to get out of town. I never said nor implied that I would let everyone else go to hell. I picked a place where there is more community spirit so I can pitch in and learn as much as I have to contribute.
Spec-op is obviously very knowledgeable about guns and such. He is not a moderator and its rather uncouth to be mentioning him. He and Jack have valid responses not just because those are their feelings but because they also represent a large percent of the population.
If monte and aaron are skeptical about eroi, In my oppinion its more because they have more knowledge. They were skeptical about peak oil and now they apply that same rational skepticism to optomistic claims that technology will save us when its been seen that each and every claim has been shot down. It gives their opinions more weight becuase they will search out and give objective oppinions about the different alternatives. I value that highly.
Just cause you seem to believe that technology and other resources will save us, fine but the rest of us are entitled to our oppinions too and does it really warrant a flame thread?
Its all the responses such as they are that will give us an idea of how people will react because each of us represents a frame of thought that will be larger than life if and when oil peaks. live long and prosper.
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uNkNowN ElEmEnt - Expert
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by ArimoDave » Sat 30 Apr 2005, 21:45:34
The principle reason that no one seems to be doing anything about the peak-oil problem may be either there is too much money being spent not to do anything, or there is a perception that doing something won't pay off.
So, here's an idea. (It may warrant its own thread -- perhaps category.)
Why don't we do something about PO rather than just discussing it? (I am thinking on a national and global level independent of governments where possible, not just a personal level.) I wonder if volunteer's could come up with viable, and implementable solutions sooner than those paid to do so?
Those of you who are working in industries which are actively seeking solutions should -- out of ethical concerns -- abstain from participating, at least in areas where your company is engaged. Also, please don't sabotage our efforts; consider it a challenge to get things done before we do.
That said, the question is what do I intend we do?
My thoughts are as follows:
Organize and rank (as applicable) alternatives by
energy return on energy invested EROEI
impact on environment
resources of raw materials
what oil use it replaces
how long it is projected to last -- life expectancy
how long the raw materials are expected to last
how well it recycles
time and energy it takes to build necessary infrastructure
feasibility of implementing now
others?
Categorize by what it replaces or supplements by
personal transportation
public transportation
goods transportation (trucking)
agriculture planting, harvesting, processing
agriculture fertilizing, pest/weed control
electrical energy production
shipping (overseas)
others?
Once we know the pros and cons of the alternatives, then we choose the best options based on the data, then inundate the media with letters to the editor, and researched articles. Perhaps, hit-up potential philanthropic investors en-mass. Maybe even create an international company which is not out to get rich, only to supply the world with the best alternatives so that transition to an energy stable world goes as smoothly as possible.
I welcome any ideas and/or suggestions. This was put together rather hastily, so I am sure there are omissions and ideas not completely thought through.
Conservation, of course, will have to play a vital role. But, I think, this is beyond the scope of what I intend. If we get the public to rally behind the cause, then governments should follow suit.
ArimoDave
So, here's an idea. (It may warrant its own thread -- perhaps category.)
Why don't we do something about PO rather than just discussing it? (I am thinking on a national and global level independent of governments where possible, not just a personal level.) I wonder if volunteer's could come up with viable, and implementable solutions sooner than those paid to do so?
Those of you who are working in industries which are actively seeking solutions should -- out of ethical concerns -- abstain from participating, at least in areas where your company is engaged. Also, please don't sabotage our efforts; consider it a challenge to get things done before we do.
That said, the question is what do I intend we do?
My thoughts are as follows:
Organize and rank (as applicable) alternatives by
energy return on energy invested EROEI
impact on environment
resources of raw materials
what oil use it replaces
how long it is projected to last -- life expectancy
how long the raw materials are expected to last
how well it recycles
time and energy it takes to build necessary infrastructure
feasibility of implementing now
others?
Categorize by what it replaces or supplements by
personal transportation
public transportation
goods transportation (trucking)
agriculture planting, harvesting, processing
agriculture fertilizing, pest/weed control
electrical energy production
shipping (overseas)
others?
Once we know the pros and cons of the alternatives, then we choose the best options based on the data, then inundate the media with letters to the editor, and researched articles. Perhaps, hit-up potential philanthropic investors en-mass. Maybe even create an international company which is not out to get rich, only to supply the world with the best alternatives so that transition to an energy stable world goes as smoothly as possible.
I welcome any ideas and/or suggestions. This was put together rather hastily, so I am sure there are omissions and ideas not completely thought through.
Conservation, of course, will have to play a vital role. But, I think, this is beyond the scope of what I intend. If we get the public to rally behind the cause, then governments should follow suit.
ArimoDave
I know exactly where we are;
. . . .
don't know where we're going, but no use in being late.
(Mathew Quigley [Tom Selleck])
. . . .
don't know where we're going, but no use in being late.
(Mathew Quigley [Tom Selleck])
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by dark-suzie » Sun 01 May 2005, 00:04:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ArimoDave', 'T')he principle reason that no one seems to be doing anything about the peak-oil problem may be either there is too much money being spent not to do anything, or there is a perception that doing something won't pay off.
So, here's an idea. (It may warrant its own thread -- perhaps category.)
Why don't we do something about PO rather than just discussing it? (I am thinking on a national and global level independent of governments where possible, not just a personal level.) I wonder if volunteer's could come up with viable, and implementable solutions sooner than those paid to do so?
ArimoDave
So, here's an idea. (It may warrant its own thread -- perhaps category.)
Why don't we do something about PO rather than just discussing it? (I am thinking on a national and global level independent of governments where possible, not just a personal level.) I wonder if volunteer's could come up with viable, and implementable solutions sooner than those paid to do so?
ArimoDave
Thats a great idea.
You could even have people make arrangments, for like, work exchange.
People with out helping people with.
Or people with helping people with out.
Suggest novel ideas for new living arangements.
Crop share.
Establish non petrolium feuled trading routes.
Just a couple ideas off the top of my head.
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dark-suzie - Wood
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by TrueKaiser » Sun 01 May 2005, 01:44:02
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('uNkNowN ElEmEnt', '
')Just cause you seem to believe that technology and other resources will save us, fine but the rest of us are entitled to our oppinions too and does it really warrant a flame thread?
')Just cause you seem to believe that technology and other resources will save us, fine but the rest of us are entitled to our oppinions too and does it really warrant a flame thread?
this is what i am talking about, this is the mentality of montequest and arron. if it's not a complete solution it's not going to work at all and thus the person who mentions it is somehow a idiot that falsely believes technology will solve everything. the reality is this, just because it is not a complete solution doesn't mean it's completely useless. so what if solar or wind power can't solve the whole problem, it will greatly help those who can afford to buy them now as time goes by. also for your information i am not in the 'technology will save us crowd', neither am i in the group of people here which are the majority here who want to throw the baby out with the bath water so to speak.
oh and i hate to point out such a glaring contradiction in your post, but 'getting the hell out of dodge' as you put it is the exact same thing as fsck everyone else. of course that doesn't matter the mentality here is 'save your own skin and your immediate family's' at best.
yes jack and spec-op are passionate about what they like, even if it will most likely make them end up in a waco or ruby ridge like incident cause they fell hook line and sinker for a mis-interpretation of American constitution as well as the propaganda from the major gun company's. personally if i lived near them then i probably would suggest to my friends and family to move, i would hate to be around them when their mad-max warlord fantasy's don't come true.
ArimoDave, that forum idea is a great one and to answer uNkNowN ElEmEnt and your question. to prepare for peak oil one needs money, lots of it(not millions or billions). to get the money needed to prepare one needs a job, this job not only needs to pay enough so you can live in the real world of today it also needs to pay enough so you can get what you need to survive. this of course means you can't get a job at your local fast food store thats within walking distance. it means getting a job that will require one to have reliable transportation(ex: a car that at least runs). this is of course assuming you do not want to run into the woods at the first sign of trouble and eat bugs or old mre's till the so called end of the world blows over.
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping the common people quiet.
'Napoleon Bonaparte'
'Napoleon Bonaparte'
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TrueKaiser - Tar Sands
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.
