[mos6507]

The general feeling is that individual morality and respect for life has no bearing on whether people become raving lunatics in a collapse scenario. You know, Lord of the Flies. The situation creates the behavior and nothing moderates it. The racist talk seems to be probing this question. Is there any difference between types of people with different cultural inclinations, different valuesystems, when faced with adversity? I'd like to think there is. That means that one country might resort to machete massacres and another might bond together peacefully. I don't know which way the US will go. Obviously we have a sense of entitlement, rugged individualism, competitiveness, and a lack of community spirit. We also have a culture of the glorification of violence with hip-hop, graphic videogames, etc... But this is still a far cry from the ethnic cleansing type things we've seen in africa or the balkans, or the crap that goes down in the middle-east. We are largely a culture of faux death and faux violence. For most of us, we're into this shit because our lives are too mundane, but I still think we prefer to keep it mundane and the excitment virtual, so there are no real consequences. We want to blow away prostitutes in Grand Theft Auto from the comfort of the couch with cheese doodles by our side. So I'm not sure whether we'll automatically make the leap to death squads where people start shooting back.

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'T')he conseravative goverment in Canada (read Republican), is actively trying to reinflate the pre-collapse bubble. They are running a massive structual deficit to support 'an economic action plan' that involves tax breaks for people to renovate and invest in their already lavish homes. One time cash (grants) or payouts (mainly to known conservative voters) for business expansion and job creation, and large scale government spending on any project they think will win Conservative voter support.

(This all came with a enourmous political scandal attached to it. That the mailed out cheques (from public government funds) all have the Conservative name and logo printed on them, along with the conservative's canidate sponcer name attached on the cheques as well).

They may actually achieve the reinflated bubble economy up here, given their enourmous and reckless deficit spending. However, it is all deficit money, and when TSHTF (likely from peak oil) this money will all be gone and the economy will collapse again.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'T')he general feeling is that individual morality and respect for life has no bearing on whether people become raving lunatics in a collapse scenario. You know, Lord of the Flies. The situation creates the behavior and nothing moderates it. The racist talk seems to be probing this question. Is there any difference between types of people with different cultural inclinations, different valuesystems, when faced with adversity? I'd like to think there is. That means that one country might resort to machete massacres and another might bond together peacefully. I don't know which way the US will go. Obviously we have a sense of entitlement, rugged individualism, competitiveness, and a lack of community spirit. We also have a culture of the glorification of violence with hip-hop, graphic videogames, etc... But this is still a far cry from the ethnic cleansing type things we've seen in africa or the balkans, or the crap that goes down in the middle-east. We are largely a culture of faux death and faux violence. For most of us, we're into this shit because our lives are too mundane, but I still think we prefer to keep it mundane and the excitment virtual, so there are no real consequences. We want to blow away prostitutes in Grand Theft Auto from the comfort of the couch with cheese doodles by our side. So I'm not sure whether we'll automatically make the leap to death squads where people start shooting back.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab', ' ')There will be machete massacres everywhere..

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jenab', ' ')There will be machete massacres everywhere..

[Newfie]

Rangerone, you seems to be considering a more violent scenario that I contemplate. Not to say you are wrong, but I hope you are.

I don't see that level of violence being widespread in North America.

I believe that in Rawanda they have something like the world's highest rural population density and long standing tribal conflicts due to forced migration. Those are factors we don't have here.

People foraging for food by moving out of impoverished neighborhoods to rummage through supermarkets in suburban communities and the attendant panic/reaction will be quite bad enough.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')Rwanda example]

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')Rwanda example]

[rangerone314]

Bloods vs Crips... red vs blue, innocent bystander wearing blue gets whacked etc. And this is black on black, in "good time".

When times suck, instead of just the wrong shirt color, try having the wrong skin color too and see how far evolved we are beyond Rwanda, Bosnia (or chimpanzees for that matter, which do the same things we do)

Morality like racism is skin deep.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Impossible to say. Think of Germany '39 to '49 or there abouts. Germany is a VERY civilized society.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')Impossible to say. Think of Germany '39 to '49 or there abouts. Germany is a VERY civilized society.

[Revi]

Why wouldn't things get nasty in the US?

Once a lot of people quit eating regularly it could easily turn nasty.

Why wouldn't it happen?

I'll bet people will riot when the gasoline gets pricey, or scarce.

There's a very thin line between civilization and chaos.

I've seen it.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '3')5.5 million people—including 12.6 million children—live in households that experience hunger or the risk of hunger. This represents more than one in ten households in the United States (10.9 percent). 1

4.0 percent of U.S. households experience hunger. Some people in these households frequently skip meals or eat too little, sometimes going without food for a whole day. 11.1 million people, including 430 thousand children, live in these homes.1

6.9 percent of U.S. households are at risk of hunger. Members of these households have lower quality diets or must resort to seeking emergency food because they cannot always afford the food they need. 24.4 million people, including 12.2 million children, live in these homes.1

[Jenab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')hy wouldn't things get nasty in the US?
Once a lot of people quit eating regularly it could easily turn nasty.
Why wouldn't it happen?
I'll bet people will riot when the gasoline gets pricey, or scarce.
There's a very thin line between civilization and chaos.
I've seen it.

[Revi]

Here in Maine there are a lot of people with no hope. 4 young 19 year old men with no jobs took to robbing camps and homes recently and were caught. They think that they may be involved in 60 incidents and home invasions. I know these kids and they were not the type you would think of as criminals.

That's the really scary part. These weren't the people you would think of. There aren't many people left to defend civility anymore. Not around here. They are all white and three of them are high school grads. They were the kind of kids who did the work, participated in activities, etc.

I saw a movie called Devils Playground recently. Kids who were raised Amish turn into meth dealers who are involved in shootouts with other Amish dope dealers within a year. Their culture didn't protect them from this at all. There is a very thin line between civilization and chaos.

http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/fea ... may/amish/

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')I'll bet people will riot when the gasoline gets pricey, or scarce.

[mos6507]

Revi, in addition to a neighborhood watch I think there should be some form of social worker program set up to try to keep people from going postal in the first place. You'd think that would work better in a small town where everyone knows eachother's name and is more aware of the larger context behind people's bad behavior. This would be the "hearts and minds" part of Transition Town movement, but there are already certainly frameworks for that sort of thing, via local government and church groups. Seems to me that turning inward, erecting boobytraps and armor cladding is, in a way, a symbol of the failure of community. Not that these vandals shouldn't be primarily accountable, but once you go down the road of seeing the neighbors as threats, then any hope of getting through the larger tapestry of energy descent as a group is gone forever. Then you're left with nothing but a John Wesley Rawles Patriots outlook on life, of fighting to the last man standing.



I know that's not in your makeup, Revi, with your past experience in the peace corp, etc... So think about it.

[Newfie]

I'm sorry Mos but did you see yesterdays news?

Military Psychiatrist kills 13, wounds 30??? In Fort Hood, which in many ways simulates a small town with a relatively homogeneous population?

Wasn't Malsovich (sp?) a Psychiatrist?


Wifes a LSCSW plus a Psychoanalyst. The Psychoanalyst training is 7 additional years after the Masters, and more if you want a PhD. Then they are in constant supervision themselves, forever. A Psychiatrist is just a MD with some special training in the brain. A Psychologist has more behavioral training. If you want someone to really work with people, who can work with people a LSCSW probably is better than a Psych.

You are really, really kidding yourself if you think that counseling, no matter who is doing it, can do any more than help the occasional person here and there. I know others will disagree but after 20 years of too close observation that is my opinion.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')You are really, really kidding yourself if you think that counseling, no matter who is doing it, can do any more than help the occasional person here and there. I know others will disagree but after 20 years of too close observation that is my opinion.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')
But to write everybody off now and head for the bunker, well, it will just insure more zombies to have to mow down in the end. If you think that's the best path forward, be my guest.