The silver bullet is:
A) Hydrogen
B) Atomic
C) Electric
D) Anything you wish if it doesn't really have to shoot.
The key to such a break through would be the battery or energy storage
device. In such a case, the money is in selling said miracle device to all
of the vehicle manufacturers. Instead, the company is going to make their
own?
I believe in miracles, after I see them work.
PeakOil is You
China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by efarmer » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 10:14:14
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by Jotapay » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 10:15:48
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')????
It already exists. Kublikhan posted the link a few posts back:
Gizmag
')????
It already exists. Kublikhan posted the link a few posts back:
Gizmag
That car you showed is a hybrid. It will only go 62 miles on a single battery charge, as I said. Then it has to switch to the gas-powered generator.
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by Jotapay » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 10:17:11
If you look on this guy's blog in the original link posted, he has a blog post a few days ago about how he has three confirmed UFO sightings.
Last edited by Jotapay on Wed 21 Oct 2009, 10:51:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by efarmer » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 10:39:10
Once again, the crew of Peak Oil has raised our imaginary trash can lid
shields and fended off an imaginary blow to Peak Oil Theory.
I am going back to praying for aim, so that if we do find the
Silver Bullet, we shoot the damn thing in the right direction.
shields and fended off an imaginary blow to Peak Oil Theory.
I am going back to praying for aim, so that if we do find the
Silver Bullet, we shoot the damn thing in the right direction.
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by PrestonSturges » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 10:50:33
Batteries don't even need a miraculous jump in performance - they just need to drop in price by half or more or to double current performance.
Considering the cost of batteries have dropped about 10x in the last 20 years, this is not too much of a stretch.
Considering the cost of batteries have dropped about 10x in the last 20 years, this is not too much of a stretch.
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by Jotapay » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 10:52:39
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'B')atteries don't even need a miraculous jump in performance - they just need to drop in price by half or more or to double current performance.
Considering the cost of batteries have dropped about 10x in the last 20 years, this is not too much of a stretch.
Considering the cost of batteries have dropped about 10x in the last 20 years, this is not too much of a stretch.
The way I understand the technology, the weight of the amount of batteries that would be required to drive 250 miles on a single charge is prohibitive. We're talking several thousand pounds.
I really hope they develop batteries that can hold more power per unit of weight. I've read a few articles that say they have developed such batteries, but I have yet to see them be brought to market.
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by emersonbiggins » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 11:02:56
Is peak lithium still in the cards?
EEStor / nano is the only way through on personal transportation, if it is to have a future at all
EEStor / nano is the only way through on personal transportation, if it is to have a future at all
"It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
George Carlin
George Carlin
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil?
by MD » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 11:07:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Olle', 'T')his is hardly news. If it can be recharged at home in 8 hours, then the battery can hold no more than 16 kWh. That is not much and it will not be sufficient for more than 100-150 km in a modern and SAFE car.
Sorry to be so negative, but please understand simple math here, a household plug can give approx 2000 Watts. Multiply that by 8 and you get 16000 Wh, a.k.a. 16 kWh.
Sorry to be so negative, but please understand simple math here, a household plug can give approx 2000 Watts. Multiply that by 8 and you get 16000 Wh, a.k.a. 16 kWh.
actually in the US most duplex outlets are rated at 15 amps. At 115vrms you'll yield 1725 watts continuous at the outlet. Assume 10% losses and you are down to about 1600 watts.Therefore In eight hours you can store 12.8 kwh.
Personally I would never load that type of circuit to that percent of capacity for more than a few minutes.
Ennyhoo...Let's assume instead a 230vac rms 40 amp single phase circuit. (typical dryer plug). Now you have 9200 watts available. At the same efficiencies you'll now be able to store 66.24 kwh. A vast improvement!
BUT: you'll still have to set up a storage system that can absorb the energy at that rate. With today's technology the number of cells required will make the battery pack both extremely heavy -and- extremely expensive...set that aside for now though and lets look at the consumption side for a minute.
Assume a very modest 2kw motor for your "small" electric vehicle. (For reference 746 watts or 0.746 kw is equivalent to 1hp, or by rule-of-thumb it takes 1000 watts of motor to deliver 1hp work.). Assume now you can push a small electric vehicle down the highway at about 20mph or so with 2kw continuous power available (with a setup that has 5kw peak available 20% duty cycle or so). This can be done. The physics are fairly simple and sound. Just don't over complicate matters with overly steep inclines or declines.
Ok then..our hypothetical 66.24 kwh can now propel us down the highway for 33.12 hours at 20 mph, or 662 miles! Weee!
Oh wait a minute...let's do a little more arithmetic and common physics. This should all be simple stuff...common as eggs...I just don't know what they are teaching kids these days.
The batteries again. Take an average car battery. 70 amp hours or so. This means it can deliver 70 amps for one hour, 35 amps for two hours, or 1 amp for 70 hours, and so forth. Let's convert that into kwh and see what we get! 70 amps at 12 volts yields 920 watts, by ohm's law. If it runs an hour, we have 0.920 kwh. So in order to store our hypothetical 66.24 kwh. We will need 72 car batteries! At 40 pounds each that's 2880 pounds.
My hypothetical vehicle only weighs a couple hundred pounds. I need a battery that can store 2kwh per pound!
{insert math for kwh available from pound of gasoline here for another shocking brain-opener}
Let's go peek again at the charging side of the math:
My little community has about 40,000 households with vehicles. If everyone wanted to load a dryer circuit overnight, at the rates assumed above, we would have 40,000 times 40 watts times 230 volts...ummm 368 megawatts...anyone got a spare nuke plant laying around? How many vehicles in the US? 100 million or so? hummm...900 terawatts? can that be right?
Now were talking serious electrical load!
New topic with a little more math:
100hp is about the working minimum for a highway worthy vehicle in the US these days. T'ink about it a bit. {hint for the slow or lazy: do you now understand why hybrids exist instead of electric only? {ps hint: see "energy available by weight"^^}}
As a further extrapolation exercise for the student; ask yourself the question: "At what power rating will the average personal transportation system come back into balance, and when will this rebalancing occur?" There are millions to be made by those that get this answer right.
Stop filling dumpsters, as much as you possibly can, and everything will get better.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
Just think it through.
It's not hard to do.
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Re: China trumps the world. Bye bye to Peak Oil
by KevO » Wed 21 Oct 2009, 11:22:01
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kjmclark', 'W')OW - so the Chinese have figured out how to use photolithography to make cars! That is impressive! 
Come on KevO. personal attack deleted 
Don't be the class smartarse; say something . Come on KevO. personal attack deleted I missed the personal attack before it was deleted and that's a shame as a persnal attack tells you so much about the attacker
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