[bratticus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]No bidders for Watergate Hotel

... PB Capital Corp. took back the property Tuesday after bidding opened at $25 million and there were no takers.

[bratticus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Hotels Deliver Some 'Jingle Mail'
By KRIS HUDSON
WSJ
August 15, 2009

'Jingle mail" isn't just for homeowners anymore. From San Diego to Dearborn, Mich., an increasing number of hotel owners in the U.S. market are simply walking away from money-losing properties and forfeiting them to lenders.

... skip ...

Distressed noncasino hotel loans now cover more than 1,000 properties with a cumulative loan value of $16.8 billion, according to Real Capital Analytics, a real-estate research company. That figure encompasses delinquencies, foreclosures, bankruptcies and restructurings of securitized mortgages in addition to loans from banks and other institutions.

... skip ...

Delinquencies of loans on casinos that have hotels adds 31 properties and $8.6 billion [$25.4 billion total] in distressed loans to the mix.

... snip ...

[deMolay]

I think the Banks are sitting on this in order to juice existing home values and stop an all out collapse in bank mortgages and subsequent values. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... atrick.net

[Pops]

A story on the radio was talking about a guy who hasn't paid his mortgage payment in a year but hasn't heard from the bank either - guess they figure since its underwater the sooner they sell it the sooner they take the loss and he'll take better care of it than the local junkies anyway.

[Daniel_Plainview]

7 million in 2009 vs. 1.27 million in 2005

[oxj]

Ja. We quit paying on our house in February. We filed for bankrot (банкрот - the Russian word for bankruptcy) in April. Recently, I asked my lawyer what was happening with the house, she had her paralegal check her computer, and voilà! there has been no foreclosure filed with the county.

I think one of two things might be happening. In our case, living in Norge, I mean, Wisconsin, they probably want us here until the housing market heats up so that we continue to heat the house and keep it in working order. Well, that's funny because we're really not doing anything with it, except heating it.

So I do agree that they want us here until the housing market heats up, so that it doesn't cause a precipitous drop in housing values, further perpetuating the crisis.

But finally, I think the real reason is that, since our loan was probably chopped up into a CDO, there's no reason for the bank to file a foreclosure since it might be suspect (see the recent discussion about foreclosure filings in Kansas). There may be pause to wait for a shift in housing laws permitting more expeditious and sure foreclosures on diced mortagages...

[Ferretlover]

HHHmmm... Think of the insurance companies and the money they are Not going to get for covering those houses.... Seven million times what? An average of about one thousand per house.. That's a bit of change...

[oxj]

Actually, much to our surprise, when we checked about the insurance, we found that it was paid by the mortgage company.

[sicophiliac]

I am licking my chops... prices go down another 10-20% or so and I might just go ahead and buy one.

[patience]

sicophiliac,

I wouldn't get in any hurry about buying a house. We haven't seen anything yet, compared to what is coming. First we get more foreclosures from high unemployment, to include some "prime" loans. Next, we get commercial real estate loans going bad (starting now), since retail business hurts from higher UE. Then the Alt-A loans get reset over the next couple years. UE benefits start to run out this year, for the first ones laid off, followed by another 500,000+/month for the next couple years. Those without UE benefits won't be paying mortgages. There is no reason to think the UE picture is going to do anything but continue the trend, and if so, we will have millions of destitute people out there over the next 2 to 3 years.

Real estate has no good prospects in the foreseeable future, that I can see. Give it a couple years, and if you still have a job and a 25% to 30% down payment, I think you can expect to find something for FAR less than today.

Case in point: A friend of mine bought a 30 year old 3 BR brick ranch on a one acre lot, (vacant for several months), for $10K this past summer. Yeah, it was 40 miles to the nearest city with any chance of job prospects. But, 4 years ago, this house was listed for over $50K.

The other side of this situation is the future value of the dollar. I would wait for a bottom in the dollar price of housing. If the dollar inflates, and housing prices start to go up again, there will be time to buy then, assuming you are still confident of your ability to pay for it.

There is a real chance that if you can stay employed and save what would be a decent down payment TODAY, you very well might be able to buy something and PAY for it with that amount of money, if you wait a couple years. Stranger things happened during the last Depression.

edit to add: The $10K house is in Indiana. My daughter lives just outside San Diego. The housing situation there is grim, and getting worse by the day. Just do a Google earth search in the area of your choice and look for brown yards, due to nobody living there and watering them. There's a lot of them in southern CA.

[oxj]

During our bankrot, there was a form to sign stating whether we'd be interested in discussing with the bank the option of rebuying the house after the bankruptcy was over.

That wasn't a hard decision. With the interest rate we had and the outstanding principle versus the value of the house, and considering the direction the market is moving, it wasn't hard to say, "no, we're not interested in this house any more."

Walking away from it is a great burden off our backs.

And frankly, I don't have any moral issues with this at all. The bank owned the house before we filed, and they still do today. We were only paying "rent" on it, with the supposition that some day we might own it, or get a "bonus" back if we were to some day sell it. They still have something of value on their books. We, on the other hand, have nothing.

[deMolay]

And even if you do pay it off, after many years. Then you are merely renting it from the Government via property tax. Can't pay your taxes. Get the Hell Out. What a rigged and crooked game.

[dorlomin]

No space in the courts to process many of these, its cheaper for the banks to keep someone in the property than have to maintain it and it prevents areas from going further down hill due to vacant properties depressing the value of the area. In a twisted way the bailout of the banks is keeping them from having to reposses so its keeping a roof over these peoples heads.

Welcome to the twisted post housing crash world.

[sicophiliac]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 's')icophiliac,I wouldn't get in any hurry about buying a house. We haven't seen anything yet, compared to what is coming. First we get more foreclosures from high unemployment, to include some "prime" loans. --snip--
edit to add: The $10K house is in Indiana. My daughter lives just outside San Diego. The housing situation there is grim, and getting worse by the day. Just do a Google earth search in the area of your choice and look for brown yards, due to nobody living there and watering them. There's a lot of them in southern CA.

[patience]

Yes, I expect that inflation to happen. There will be time to get in on that. I'd wait until there are clear signs that the market prices are in fact going up again. It could take a while for that to happen. We have a lot of ALT-A's to flush out first.

[Falconoffury]

With job losses like the ones we are seeing, I don't see how the USA can experience inflation. How is the money going to get into people's pockets? Banks are tightening on lending standards. The Fed is giving money to banks, but the banks aren't lending much of it out, which would normally create jobs and put money in people's pockets.

I guess the government can always expand the welfare system and make everyone millionares.

Prices could rise by a huge amount if imports collapse, but that's not inflation. Inflation is an expansion of money and credit. Prices would rise due to supply and demand fundamentals.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 'T')here will be time to get in on that. I'd wait until there are clear signs that the market prices are in fact going up again.

[patience]

Falconoffury said: " I don't see how the USA can experience inflation. "

Not at the present time, I agree. What I see as the "end game" of our mess is the US literally printing--diluting the dollar--to cope with an inability to sell new govt debt. But I think that is a ways out there yet. In the meantime, we have central banks playing games with liquidity that can change the foreign exchange rates to some degree. I'd watch what happens in Japan and China closely for that, which would affect the cost of their imports to the US.

I'm watching the US Treasury market, particularly for news about how much of new US T's were bought by the Fed = direct monetization. I don't expect to see a "wage-price spiral", rather, I just expect us all to get much poorer, as our earnings stagnate, or drop, while prices of imports in particular, continue to rise. Meanwhile, capital assets in the US will be worth less, that is,houses, commercial property, equipment, etc.(PRICE deflation).

So, as to inflation or deflation? I'd say YES. Both, in different areas. Money supply going up a LOT, import prices rising, housing falls a long way yet, along with CRE, with US wages generally down due to stalled economy/UE. Eventually, this will put enough pressure on the US govt that they will feel the need to "do something", or risk social upheaval. I think their answer will be to keep doing the only thing they know--SPEND. When they can't borrow more to spend, I think they will print it. Then, it hits the fan.

Somebody talk me out of this. I don't like this picture..

[Falconoffury]

The Federal Government of the USA is still dwarfed by the private economy. Even with all the reckless spending we are seeing today, it will take many years for the government to really start replacing the private economy. If you expect the government to spend its way to inflation, expect a long wait.

Is it really inflation if all the money sits on bank balance sheets? I would say "no" because that money isn't doing anything. It is neither spurring production nor consumption. The banks are just sitting on that money in preperation for more defaults.

I made a prediction earlier in the year about coming trade wars, and it seems I may be right. Just do a web search for "tire tax". If I am right, expect more protectionism, and potentially higher prices due to the supply of goods dropping. A trade collapse is even possible. Now we are talking Mad Max. I doubt that government manipulation of the money supply will do much when the shelves of all your local stores are nearly bare.

[vision-master]

Inflation will only happen if the economy can support it. Now, then again some items are getting expensive. I was looking at some old bicycle mags. Prices have doubled within 15 years time. Have auto prices doubled like this?