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When you see someone shoplifting...

Discussions about the economic and financial ramifications of PEAK OIL

Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby dunewalker » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 12:45:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', ' ')

Simple rules of merchandising:

If you wouldn't buy it, don't try to sell it.


Wise words.


wise words perhaps, but when every customer demands that everything they buy looks as if it has been "squeezed out of a tube"...


There's a simple, fair solution to this issue: grade the produce/merchandise as to quality and charge appropriately. Those "blems" will readily disappear if discounted, and your profits are sustained by charging a bit more for the perfect ones. Maybe have a mid-grade also...

Same issue at the lumberyards: they try to pawn off split, warped 2 x 4s as "standard-or-better". The better yards let customers pick through the wood, then make a pile of the obvious rejects and discount them as "econo".
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby Tyler_JC » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 13:28:22

Dunewalker, you read my mind.

Why should I have to pay for a grocer's damaged goods?

If the grocery store isn't happy with the waste, maybe they should try a little harder to get better products. This notion that everyone should just settle for mediocrity is, frankly, pathetic. We didn't climb out of the primordial ooze just to eat squishy bananas.

Moreover, the people who steal a grape here and there aren't a store's biggest problem. For every dollar they steal in merchandise, they buy $100. It's like an unofficial free sample.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby jupiters_release » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 13:48:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', ' ')

Simple rules of merchandising:

If you wouldn't buy it, don't try to sell it.


Wise words.



that WOULD eliminate most sales jobs...


Much of modern society needs to be eliminated, and of course it will be in due time.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby Geodesic » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 14:28:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', 'T')he other day, I walked into a large-chain drugstore that isn't too far from our downtown and so it has more than its fair share of homeless men wandering around.

As I walked in, I saw a very rough-looking guy walking out. He had a large back pack on, and he smelled bad and looked worse.

As he passed through the sensors flanking the door, the blinky red lights came on and the "beep, beep, beep" of the alarm started bleating loudly.

He did not have *anything* (packages or otherwise) in his hands. As he continued on his way, the cashier simply reached under the counter and turned off the alarm and he went on his merry way.

I also looked at the cashier and I wanted to say, "Really? Is this how the game is played now? Because, i don't need much stuff and I'm short on cash just now and I'd rather just grab what I need and be on my way, so is it okay if I just walk out without paying?"

But I said not a word. I selected my items and went to the cashier and gave up a few of my dollars and went home.

It occurs to me that our society is based almost wholly on good faith and good morals. And it seems that the criminal element is getting the upper hand, if they're free to steal us blind and walk away with no repercussions.

And if the economy continues to deteriorate, how safe are we in our homes? I know in our area, burglaries are up. Larcenies are up. It's pretty unnerving. And the #1 complaint: "The police said there's not much they can do about the theft..."

What's the solution for us simple-minded fools who continue to play by the rules?


Petty shoplifting bothers you but the trillion dollar thefts by the billionaire banksters and military contractors you're ok with. Wow, have you got your priorities screwed up. Why don't you go wag your finger at the perpetrators of this financial debacle instead of their victims? Good luck finding them in their multimillion dollar Park Ave. penthouses and Bahamas villas paid for with your tax dollars and their deregulation assisted Ponzi schemes.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby JJ » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 14:52:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'D')unewalker, you read my mind.

Why should I have to pay for a grocer's damaged goods?

If the grocery store isn't happy with the waste, maybe they should try a little harder to get better products. This notion that everyone should just settle for mediocrity is, frankly, pathetic. We didn't climb out of the primordial ooze just to eat squishy bananas.

Moreover, the people who steal a grape here and there aren't a store's biggest problem. For every dollar they steal in merchandise, they buy $100. It's like an unofficial free sample.


Tyler JC, the reason "you" should have to pay for a grocers damaged goods is because "you" want to eat bananas or watermelon or whatever in January when there is 6 feet of snow on the ground outside. The ignorance of the public with regards to where their food comes from is unbelievable. Our demand for 24/7/365 accessibility of everything grown on the earth has necessitated the storage of most items in vast nitrogen filled warehouses waiting transport to your neighborhood grocer. (For example, the bananas are picked green and stored for up to one year. When the store wants to place an order, they are gassed in order to achieve the proper color. Our order guide has six colors, so they know how long to gas them the day before.) Frequently, the boxes of product are full of mold when we receive them. We may go through ten boxes of grapes to get one box not full of fungus and mold. (also black widows). Technically, we are supposed to inspect each load; in reality, with a thousand cases that have to be on the shelf in three hours (if the truck is on time) and only two workers, there is no time to inspect loads. Usually there is a trip tic thermometer on the pallet showing how long the load was out of acceptable temps; sometimes its 24 hours. My neighbor used to haul loads of meat from the border, he said the Mexican truckers frequently turned off the refrigerators to save fuel, and the loads were thawed out when they received them. (Thats anecdotal; I wouldn't know personally). I do know that when your tv dinner has thawed and refrozen in a blob in the corner of the box, that something is wrong.

Now, I make my living off of this system. Just observations. But I do know that no kind of accountability will work in our current system. We are just trying to feed too many people. For better quality, better to go to an organic store and be prepared to pay more. The current system will not tolerate the attention to quality you are talking about. (Sadly, though, we've done it to ourselves). When I was a little boy, we went to the farmers market with a basket, and bought what was in season. Period.
I had a lady go ballistic on me because we don't have her brand of cat food. We only have 165 kinds.

"If the grocery isn't happy with the waste, maybe they should try to get better products". I hear this allot. You should be ashamed to have this on the shelf (because it has a blemish on it). Yes, well, how is the yellow squash in your yard doing? Mine froze. (this in January). Or "I wouldn't feed this to my pigs". We've got a long way down to go,methinks. I do see a future in which you buy your bananas pre-wrapped, though. The Canadian lady told me they are already doing that in Canada. Our organic bananas are already banded to keep people from tearing the hands up; I step back sometimes and watch the people trying to tear open the hands. They can't tear the plastic, they usually just destroy the bananas. (back to the feed the pigs thing).
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby vision-master » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 15:17:34

I buy 'damaged' food goods or 'past date' stuff from a couple discount stores for half retail price or less. :)
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby JJ » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 15:27:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I') buy 'damaged' food goods or 'past date' stuff from a couple discount stores for half retail price or less. :)


I am not allowed to mark down the 1.79 cantalopes (the neighboring store does for .30) because a). "I'm going to lose the sale (there are no sales at that price, so they all rot) and b) "I have to pay you to mark them down" and c) "the customers will just wait until you mark stuff down and buy it then". But I AM allowed to mark down a forty pound bag of loose bananas (I have a half dozen at the end of the day) for ,99 cents. Go Figure.

Its against the law here to sell anything "past date" past 7:00 am in the morning of that date.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby JJ » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 15:29:59

in retrospect, I'm about to become an anachronism. :(
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby joewp » Sat 12 Sep 2009, 16:04:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Geodesic', '
')
Petty shoplifting bothers you but the trillion dollar thefts by the billionaire banksters and military contractors you're ok with. Wow, have you got your priorities screwed up. Why don't you go wag your finger at the perpetrators of this financial debacle instead of their victims? Good luck finding them in their multimillion dollar Park Ave. penthouses and Bahamas villas paid for with your tax dollars and their deregulation assisted Ponzi schemes.



And here we have the crux of the dilemma. People brought up in the banker's criminal system have no idea what's really happening, so they target their fellow drones instead of the powers that caused all the hardship.

It's really frustrating to try to explain it to people who refuse to believe anything other than "growth is good".
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby perdition79 » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 18:15:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 'B')ut I do know that no kind of accountability will work in our current system. We are just trying to feed too many people. For better quality, better to go to an organic store and be prepared to pay more. The current system will not tolerate the attention to quality you are talking about.


That's what I wanted to see, an admission of systemic failure. Anecdotes of a lack of quality control at all levels always amuse me. I know every system that services the demands of our overshoot is epic fail. Produce, chicken, beef, bottled water, fast food -- it's all bad.

I understand exactly where you're coming from. When someone peels two, three, or five bad bananas off of a bunch to get quality, it's not an attack against you; it's an attack against the entire system. It's a system designed to leave someone else holding the bag. Despite whatever trickery merchants try, whether it's rubber bands around bunches of bananas (easily defeated by a linoleum knife) or bagged apples replacing loose apples, customers will always point out the treachery of merchants. Attempts to stop such revelations will fail for one simple reason: there's not enough money at the merchant level for anyone to care. Cashiers won't care whether a banana has a band around it, they're not paid enough to care about anything other than typing 4011 when a banana is on the scale. Most aren't even paid enough to care about that.

On the macro level, a refrigerated container or bananas may be considered high-quality and allowed 15% spoilage. On the micro level, even one out of six bananas on a bunch looking bad is unacceptable.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby JJ » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 19:41:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('perdition79', 'T')hat's what I wanted to see, an admission of systemic failure. Anecdotes of a lack of quality control at all levels always amuse me. --snip-- On the micro level, even one out of six bananas on a bunch looking bad is unacceptable.

+1
I've yet to be able to figure out another job. I hate what I do, but it feeds the kiddies. Actually, I like the work but I hate having to deal with the public and their constant disapproval/disappointment. "I'm very disappointed in..." that should be the US mantra.

ps I lived on the streets and ate out of the dumpster for years and years. We throw away a lot of good stuff.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby nobodypanic » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 20:16:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', 'W')hat's the solution for us simple-minded fools who continue to play by the rules?
get these guys JOBS w/living wages.

what, you think people are just going to quietly starve to death out of sight so that you're not offended?
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby Pretorian » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 20:24:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', ' ') What's the solution for us simple-minded fools who continue to play by the rules?
get these guys JOBS w/living wages. what, you think people are just going to quietly starve to death out of sight so that you're not offended?
All US jobs are jobs with pay that is waaay over living wages. Get real. Call me when your ship will be passing our galaxy again.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby nobodypanic » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 20:29:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'A')ll US jobs are jobs with pay that is waaay over living wages. Get real. Call me when your ship will be passing our galaxy again.
go flirt w/a singularity Text deleted..
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby JJ » Sun 13 Sep 2009, 21:05:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', 'g')o flirt w/a singularity Text deleted..

uhhh, ever live in the Philippines? Where a doctor or lawyer works for five dollars a day? Americans are (temporarily) WAY overpaid. But thats about to change. A co-worker married a Filipina about twenty years ago, but has never been there. He just got back. His whole world was destroyed. He kept trying to tell me what its like (been there done that). For the first time in ten years I saw him scared.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby nobodypanic » Mon 14 Sep 2009, 01:02:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', ' ') uhhh, ever live in the Philippines? Where a doctor or lawyer works for five dollars a day? --snip--He kept trying to tell me what its like (been there done that). For the first time in ten years I saw him scared.

because armed insurgency is better than shoplifting? :lol:
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby pedalling_faster » Mon 14 Sep 2009, 08:08:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hope_full', 'I')t occurs to me that our society is based almost wholly on good faith and good morals. And it seems that the criminal element is getting the upper hand, if they're free to steal us blind and walk away with no repercussions.

And if the economy continues to deteriorate, how safe are we in our homes? I know in our area, burglaries are up. Larcenies are up. It's pretty unnerving. And the #1 complaint: "The police said there's not much they can do about the theft..."


this kind of crime doesn't bother me.

it's the banksters making off with $trillions via various forms of financial industry & credit derivative (their newest scam) fraud that threatens our society about 1 billion times more.

i'm much more concerned about white collar crime than stinky-collar crime.

the former threatens the Nation. the latter diminishes quarterly profits.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby HeckuvaJob » Mon 14 Sep 2009, 11:31:22

For more info about bruised fruit and other atrocities in the produce isle, read Nobodies: Modern American Slave Labor and the Dark Side of the New Global Economy - it's a comedy about the exorbitant living wage paid to all Americans.

I've made the following observations during the brief period when I had the privilege of working with the homeless:

1. None of them set out with the goal of becoming homeless. Sometimes all it takes is a job layoff, a house fire, an abusive relationship (spouse or parent), unpaid medical bills, a divorce, inability to get treatment for mental illness or substance abuse, corrupt land lords, or even a car breaking down. Think finding a job is tough today? Try doing it while homeless. You might be surprised at just how slippery the slope of middle-class subsistence really is, which leads me to...

2. It's not the bottom 10% that's "robbing you blind" - it's the top 1%. Any legislator or legislation that cuts social services is weakening your community, and a strong, supportive community might one day be your only salvation (see #1 above). St. Ronald's fictitious Cadillac-driving welfare queen provided a convenient scapegoat that the public could easily vilify. Some minority driving a luxury sedan that you paid for was a great distraction from tax and trade policies that gut the middle class. It's hard to overstate Reagan's damage to the middle class, in fact, he might even be tied with Clinton.

Some of you may be thinking, but I'm Not One Of Those 'Love Thy Neighbor' Christians. Not a problem - you can help support your community regardless of religious beliefs.

Just my $0.02 - the view from your gated community may differ.
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby vision-master » Mon 14 Sep 2009, 12:05:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen you see someone shoplifting...


Tell em, get me some stuff too, our I'll turn you in. :)
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Re: When you see someone shoplifting...

Postby JJ » Mon 14 Sep 2009, 12:30:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen you see someone shoplifting...


Tell em, get me some stuff too, our I'll turn you in. :)



^ warlord in training. :)
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