[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'V')ietnam, India, East Turkistan and Tibet might disagree.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'S')eems clear enough to me, they'll buy grain from US Midwest farmers for rinminbi which will then be used to purchase hummers and pickups from China.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'A')nd when oil is $200/bbl how much grain will be produced and how many hummers will Americans drive?

[SeaGypsy]

Is anyone suggesting China is a direct threat militarily to fhe USA? I'm out of touch with US media these days, but I suspect many Americans would prefer direct war to death by attrition?

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'B')eing an American born dual national Australian, I have copped shite all my life from the Uncle end about my insistence that Australia was going to outlive the USA in lifestyle terms; for a very long time.
My basis for this assertion was that Australia is perfectly placed to take advantage of the virtually unstoppable rise
of China.

The USA has been poised to become a resource importer to an exponential extent, simultaneously losing any tech advantage over it's competitors and long since having lost any productivity advantage in real cost terms.

The final battle between the great hegemonies is taking a very interesting tone, not least philosophicly
.
Beware , my American brothers and sisters, there are some lethally clever business people in South East Asia.
Between Australian and African resources, Chinese ingenuity, hard work for 'peanuts'; you guys are in some serious shite.

Yeah we are all ultimately in it big time; but not just yet
.
The Chinese are reveling in the idea of everyone having to do business with them on their terms. Not too far away.
What can the USA do?
Compete with the Chinese.
Goodbye workers rights.
Goodbye minimum wage.
Hello workin your backside off for just enough to get by?

Or Goodbye America?

[SeaGypsy]

Another advantage the Sino's have is their generally happy disposition. Try telling a Chinese with a $5 a day job that they should not be happy. Try telling J6P s/he is only worth that an hour and they should be gratefull.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'A')nother advantage the Sino's have is their generally happy disposition. Try telling a Chinese with a $5 a day job that they should not be happy. Try telling J6P s/he is only worth that an hour and they should be gratefull.

[rangerone314]

China for all the good they might do, such as leap frogging past some stages of development, development of LED lighting and magleve trains and such, are ultimately going to be co-leaders in the race to the bottom.

That is only the end result.

The great lie in this country is that there is really anything to be done about it. At BEST our standard of living will meet China's halfway eventually... China's standard will go up (but not to our present level) and our standard will go down. That is what would happen WITHOUT peak oil due to the race to the bottom.

Now WITH peak oil, the future will probably be US having the standard of living they have in China now, and the Chinese standard of living being what the standard is in Darfur.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'A')s much as now, if not more. $200/bbl isn't even close to what it would take to shut down agricultural production in the midwest.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'A')s much as now, if not more. $200/bbl isn't even close to what it would take to shut down agricultural production in the midwest.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat would the US response be if China backs Iran and Iran rains several hundred missiles down on Ras Tanura oil terminal in Saudi Arabia?

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'A')lso don't be so quick to dismiss Spratley and Paracel Islands as a mere border dispute. It is more than just oil rights. They are also strategically situated to cufoff oil shipping routes to Japan.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'A')lso don't be so quick to dismiss Spratley and Paracel Islands as a mere border dispute. It is more than just oil rights. They are also strategically situated to cufoff oil shipping routes to Japan.

[SeaGypsy]

China, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Thailand all have untested claims on massive chunks of South China seafloor. As peak oil takes grip these disputed territories will become a very serious focus in the region.
Who knows how this is likely to play out? Not me and I have lived in the region most of my life.
It seems very unlikely that anyone can ultimately stand against China in the S.C.Sea.
The Arabs who would back Malaysia, the USA who would back the Philippines, will all be way too busy to get in a war with China over seafloor. In the short term pragmatism will win; in the longer term???

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'C')hina, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Thailand all have untested claims on massive chunks of South China seafloor. As peak oil takes grip these disputed territories will become a very serious focus in the region.
Who knows how this is likely to play out? Not me and I have lived in the region most of my life.
It seems very unlikely that anyone can ultimately stand against China in the S.C.Sea.
The Arabs who would back Malaysia, the USA who would back the Philippines, will all be way too busy to get in a war with China over seafloor. In the short term pragmatism will win; in the longer term???

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'C')hina, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Thailand all have untested claims on massive chunks of South China seafloor. As peak oil takes grip these disputed territories will become a very serious focus in the region.
Who knows how this is likely to play out? Not me and I have lived in the region most of my life.
It seems very unlikely that anyone can ultimately stand against China in the S.C.Sea.
The Arabs who would back Malaysia, the USA who would back the Philippines, will all be way too busy to get in a war with China over seafloor. In the short term pragmatism will win; in the longer term???

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'C')hina, the Philippines, Malaysia, and Thailand all have untested claims on massive chunks of South China seafloor. As peak oil takes grip these disputed territories will become a very serious focus in the region.
Who knows how this is likely to play out? Not me and I have lived in the region most of my life.
It seems very unlikely that anyone can ultimately stand against China in the S.C.Sea.
The Arabs who would back Malaysia, the USA who would back the Philippines, will all be way too busy to get in a war with China over seafloor. In the short term pragmatism will win; in the longer term???

[SeaGypsy]

OK then let's call it like it is:

China: $2.50 day

Philippines: $5.00 day

Singapore $5.00 hour

Australia $20.00 hour

The rest of SE Asiia fits in the preceeding end of this table.

If you need a shite load of workers with moderate skill levels/ China.

If you need a goodly number with moderate skills and English/ Philippines.

If you need a moderate number of workers with Chinese and English skills/ Singapore.

If you need a small number of extremely well supplied workers/ Australia.

The less you pay per worker the more corrupt the regime, the more intermittent the power supply etc etc...

When China catches up in terms of English, fiscal and prudential responsibility, reliability of service/ commodity inputs; the rest will be struggling to compete.

Sad fact.