[JohnDenver]

Let me first say, I'm not interested in racial slurs and so forth. I want this thread to be civil. Mods, I hope you'll help me out with that.

That said, a number of things have got me wondering about the racial situation in the US (and Europe).

1) Here's one. About a week ago, Pops started a thread called Race Riots or Worse. In the thread itself, he just mentioned civil unrest, and steered clear of the race issue. So why use the title "Race Riots", Pops? Why is race on your mind? And why not talk about race, after naming a thread "Race Riots"? It's seems weird. It's like you want to talk about it, but not talk about it.

2) I read the thread US Now a 3rd World Country, and I got a similar impression. Pretorian asks "What is a 3rd world country?" and nobody seems to state the obvious, i.e. that a 3rd world country (as the term is commonly understood) is a poorly managed country inhabited/run by black or brown people. In other words, "3rd world country" is a code word for race.

For instance, Detroit has been called a 3rd world city since the 1990s, and in fact some blacks in Detroit government have even worn that designation with pride:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')nder Coleman Young, Detroit's longtime and aggressive mayor who is forever excoriating "racism," Chafets says that "Detroit has become not merely an American city that happens to have a black majority, but a black metropolis, with all the trappings of a Third World city -- showcase projects, an external enemy and the cult of personality. Detroit has even developed a quasi-official ideology that regards the pre-Yound era as a time of white colonialism, ended by the 1967 insurrection and its aftermath.

"Not surprisingly, some of Coleman Young's closest associates identify readily with Africa and the Third World."

[JJ]

here ya go JD
http://la-gun.com/manning/

[Grautr]

They found in Britain that multiculturalism just didnt work. Immigrants tend to stick to their own communities and neighbourhoods. They also found that violence between immigrant communities was worse than between the locals and immigrants.

All this of course has been on the upside with a majority of immigrants arriving after WWII. I expect the downslope will see these communities tighten up to suport themselves with crime and violence increasing.

Before WWII the two big immigrant populations in London were the Jews and Huguenots the majority of which lived in the Eastend, Londons slum.

[vision-master]

Long legged Mac-Daddy.

[Cloud9]

I am a fan of James Waller’s book Becoming Evil. He takes a look at how ordinary people can partake in genocide. The twentieth century is replete with examples of where neighbor has murdered neighbor. Political ideologies have driven some of it. Religion has driven some of it. And race has driven some of it.

In hard economic times people are forced into survival mode. We are forced to circle the wagons and seek support from those who identify with us. Race is one of those identifying factors.

If the prognosticators on this board are correct. Hard times are here and will only worsen in the future. Will race wars break out in the United States? Probably not. On the other hand, I believe race riots are a certainty. It is entirely possible that minorities will be driven from certain neighborhoods. It would be a mistake to assume that all those minorities will be brown or black.

The visceral hatred of the President may not be all race based. There are those that hate Hillary just as much. And there were certainly those that hated George Bush and many of them were white.

The President can however make a couple of horrendous mistakes that would push us into the direction of a race war. A decision for weapons confiscation as prophesied in the Turner Diaries would be one step in that direction. The fleshing out of his idea of a civilian militia on a par with the United States Military would be another. Should this fleshing out take the form of recruiting Acorn Storm Troopers, trouble lays ahead.

Already there are those in the military who have challenged his legitimacy to rule based on his birth certificate. There are those on this board who have dismissed this issue as blatant racism. I think there may be more to it than that. I think this may very well be the avenue taken to unseat him should he shake up the centers of power in Washington.

A few wrong decisions by those involved could rip us apart. In as much as race is one of the key factors driving the discussion at this moment, ethnic cleansing could be in our future. It is certainly not a certainty, but it is a possibility.

[ian807]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', '.').. A decision for weapons confiscation as prophesied in the Turner Diaries would be one step in that direction.

[Cloud9]

No I have not met anyone from Acorn. An Acorn Storm Trooper is a stereotype. As all stereotypes, it is a generalization that evokes a certain mental image. The mental image of a large brown fellow in a black uniform with a large gun scares the crap out of a lot of people. Is the image real? I am sure that if you look hard enough, you can find somebody that fills the bill. The point is a few wrong mental images could drive us over the edge.

The issue was not that President Obama would make these decisions. The point was that if he did make those decisions, that could push us down the path of disintegration and ethnic cleansing. I don’t see this as our future, but to dismiss it as not being possible is naive.

[JohnDenver]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')he visceral hatred of the President may not be all race based.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')he visceral hatred of the President may not be all race based.

[Cloud9]

I think you are right. Anxiety which is the natural product of uncertainty is driving much of the discussion. There is an undercurrent in these discussions that anything may be possible. This uncertainty will cause many of us to examine all of our fears.

Thank God that most of what we fear never happens.

[NTBKtrader]

Racial tensions won't culminate in riots or war it will show in grabs for government resources and power. When hard times come people will look to their government to provide support via welfare, food stamps, unemployment, porkulus, stimulus, etc etc. All people will and are doing this from rich white bankers to poorer blacks/hispanics. It will be a race of who can loot the treasury the fastest to support their kin. Then when government defaults on it's debt it will be neighbor vs neighbor as they will be the only resource left to loot.

[dorlomin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grautr', 'T')hey found in Britain that multiculturalism just didnt work. Immigrants tend to stick to their own communities and neighbourhoods.

[venky]

Human beings are tribal by instinct and nations with many cultures and races will always have this underlying racial tension. But the fact that Obama could have elected in the first place shows that Race is probably not something that bothers most Americans to a great extent. However there will always be a minority of people who might be driven by racial hatred to do violent acts.

[Carlhole]

The United States of America has a deep, deep history of racism. It's laid out in all soul-destroying detail in Howard Zinn's A People's History Of The United States, which is a very good read, if you're interested.

Philosophically, you cannot square the ideals embodied in the Constitution with the simmering racism that exists in the country - mostly in the South but arguably everywhere to some extent. Anti-racism measures have had to be forced upon the US populace, more or less, from the top down. Remember, we saw top politicians decrying racism in the late 50's and early 60's, well before all the civil rights actions a few years later.

A couple of years ago, I read A History of Modern Latin America. The authors talked about the separate paths that North and South America took in regards to Race and Politics. In America, we adopted English ideals on these matters. The English were loathe to mix blood with the Indians or Negroes, even erecting harsh laws forbading any sort of miscegenation. Americans largely adopted the English codes of law as well and borrowed from English political institutions while modifying them for the new country.

In Latin America, the Spanish mixed blood easily and lustfully, creating the mestizo race with which we are now so familiar. This was because Spain sent over droves of its men while keeping its women home. The Spanish, from the Conquistadors onwards, had no problem with taking as many wives as they wanted from amongst the natives. And the natives didn't care much about it either, seeing, instead, much to be gained from this arrangement. Actually, the mixing of European and Indian blood in Latin America appeared to produce a hardy, intelligent new race.

However, the English-derived political systems in the North proved considerably more robust and self-sustaining than the Spanish-derived political systems in the South. (The authors of this text go into great detail and back up what they say with considerable historical detail). Thus, we have this disparity -- there is much less racism in South America than in the North. However, the political systems in the North are much more solid and sustaining than in South America. This variance reflects the racial disparity that originally existed in Europe. That is, Northern Europeans felt racially superior to Europeans in the South and were less likely to engage in mixing with racial groups outside themselves. At any rate, culturally, this disparity manifests itself even to this day on a whole new Continent.

If it were more politically correct to express racial bias these days, you can be sure that the whole hornet's nest of racial discrimination would rear its head once again. Legislators and politicians have to sit heavily upon the lid of that boiling cauldron in this country. To be fair, though, I don't imagine that the Japanese would show themselves to be any less racist if they had to live alongside a bunch of brown and black people. They would probably be worse than the English! Maybe there is a genetic component to this whole thing that works in tandem with cultural norms and rules?

To my mind, Obama appears more white than black - from his elocution and politics to his genral personable manner. What's black about him aside from hair and skin?

He seems to be a continuation of the Robert F. Kennedy campaign. What's black about the Kennedys?

[the48thronin]

I guess I have to respond a little, although this topic will waste much time and effort on straw arguments and warring by jousting with windmills.

I have lived in several Latin American countries, and the truth in all of the ones I lived in was that indigenous people guarded their racial heritage jealously and tended to shun ,mixed blood people away from their hearts, in the cities, descendants of the original Conquistadors control almost all wealth and do so subconsciously.

Mixed blood middle classes are small and powerless no matter what the politics is except in countries where democracy has been existent by force and replaced by shams, in some of those the absolute predominance of mixed blood as serving officers ( usually making lower field grades only with some notable exceptions) has resulted in a governmental war on the wealth of the Spanish descendants and their foreign allies.

In America these days, Race is an issue when RACE is the lever to power. other than that in most places the prejudices in the population are about equally exclusionary with the difference in power application ability being the stunning difference in government and social norms. I find no difference between members of different races in their racist attitudes other than the difference in the definition "we" and "They" applied.

Up until the 60s white politicians played to RACE for power and lost, in the 2000s other groups politicians are playing to race for power and they will also in time lose. In both cases the oppressed are made to think the politician understands their frustrations and can change the power structure to help their group gain ascendency.

Racism is a world wide phenomenon, and is a tribal reaction to different, you have only to look at the prejudices against eastern Europeans now to understand the prejudices are not just based on race. Those people who feel the need to promote themselves at the expense of others find RACE an easy distinction to use in gathering sympathy and following.

corrected grammer and spelling

[PrestonSturges]

You could draw a Venn diagram looking like the Olympics logo. Label the circles Republican, libertarians, 2nd amendment paranoids, bigots, white separatists, neo-nazis. There are overlaps.

As soon as the GOP lost, they went off a cliff, talking about succession, and now going straight to urging terrorism and assassination, although they are careful to claim "I did not just say what I just said.. Dick Armey was on MTP press calling Medicare "tyranny" right after decrying the "gun guy" and his Tim McVeighish "tyranny" t-shirt at the town hall meeting.

The GOP has coddled domestic terrorist groups of all types for the last 8 years, with the right-to-life clinic bombers and assassins the tip of the iceberg.

Then you have the rise of a massive propaganda machine (AM radio and Fox) targeting the barely literate portion of the American public. The AM radio programs are often quite racist.

Now we see the GOP "mainstream" adopting talking points right out of Mein Kampf about how the "liberals" and the mongrelized races are planning to kill the Aaryans - I mean the Whites.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'Y')ou could draw a Venn diagram looking like the Olympics logo. Label the circles Republican, libertarians, 2nd amendment paranoids, bigots, white separatists, neo-nazis. There are overlaps.

As soon as the GOP lost, they went off a cliff, talking about succession, and now going straight to urging terrorism and assassination, although they are careful to claim "I did not just say what I just said.. Dick Armey was on MTP press calling Medicare "tyranny" right after decrying the "gun guy" and his Tim McVeighish "tyranny" t-shirt at the town hall meeting.

The GOP has coddled domestic terrorist groups of all types for the last 8 years, with the right-to-life clinic bombers and assassins the tip of the iceberg.

Then you have the rise of a massive propaganda machine (AM radio and Fox) targeting the barely literate portion of the American public. The AM radio programs are often quite racist.

Now we see the GOP "mainstream" adopting talking points right out of Mein Kampf about how the "liberals" and the mongrelized races are planning to kill the Aaryans - I mean the Whites.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')So, you hate whitey?

[Cloud9]

Where would the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers and the Hebrew Israelites be placed on your diagram? The ultimate racism is to not be able to recognize the racist within one’s own group.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'W')here would the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers and the Hebrew Israelites be placed on your diagram? The ultimate racism is to not be able to recognize the racist within one’s own group.