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Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby the48thronin » Wed 12 Aug 2009, 22:02:32

There are two slide shows, for each one click on the picture to see the slide show from photobucket!


Image

So across the street from wally world is a Kroger... and we decided to look in there today also

Then we went to wally world

The sugar had been restocked finally as well as the paper isle..




Image

The seamless restocking of a JIT distribution system is broken... at both stores. Take that fact and apply it to every JIT distribution system.. looks like we will be experiencing CHANGE of some kind starting NOW!
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby the48thronin » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 00:53:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', ' ')As far as I can tell, the shortages in farm machinery were caused by the sharp increase in demand for them, not by a breakdown in JIT distributation. The rising food prices last year caused increased demand for food and the machinery to grow/harvest/process it. Likewise, increased demand for biofuels had caused a further increase in demand for farm machinery. As the credit crunch and economic downturn continue to hit all businesses, demand is slacking in the farm machinery business as well. This is easing those record long waiting lists. Instead, orders are dropping off and profit margins are getting squeezed. With demand dropping off, I am just not seeing the epic shortage in the farm machinery business that you see.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')any analysts expect 2009 to continue the painful economic conditions that closed out '08. Now, these general macroeconomic woes are starting to extend into the farm machinery marketplace. It's coming in the form of lower demand, driven in part by cancelled machinery orders, say Agriculture Online Machinery Talk members and farmers who are starting to see a change in a market that, just months ago, had such high demand that waiting lists for some new pieces of machinery were a year long. Now, economic stress has that demand ebbing and the marketplace rapidly changing.

"I have a good friend that is in the equipment business. He says a lot of his customers are hinting they want out of some of the tractors and combines they ordered in the summer"

But thus far, the majority haven't sought this course of action, at least domestically, says Machinery Pete. But, looking beyond U.S. borders, it's easy to see that a trend may not be far off.
Economic dire straits reaching into farm machinery business



Economic dire straits reaching into farm machinery business
Demand the key indicator to watch into '09, market-watcher says


Jeff Caldwell
Agriculture Online Multimedia Editor

1/05/2009, 7:53 AM CST


This is the header of the article you quoted.

So I talked to my agribusiness friend who laughed when I sent him your linked article, comments worth repeating

So far no one has tried to (or even talked of) opting out of any of the over a hundred brand new $400,000 dollar combines he has sold in the last few months, and in fact if he could even get ahold of 10 more he could sell them today to people he has had to explain that no more NEW machines are available to him before NOVEMBER ( long after harvest).

His shift from reliance on JIT parts to parts on hand has doubled his parts inventory cost, but his revenue from parts sales are up 400% and the parts are leading to major contracts with firms that are not experiencing credit problems as of august 09. Their maintanence demands not being met are major problems for them tho.

The parts he has in stock are now hitting high demand, and he is absolutely refusing to sell them to other dealers who did not stock parts but will sell them directly to their customers. This is understandable because those customers needing those parts are then aware of his new "on hand parts" stance, and has resulted in a drastic increase in new equipment contracts from ag businesses who started out by simply needing a part no one else had in stock.

As a separate topic, we discussed selling when ever possible made in America parts as replacement parts for manufacturers made overseas ( Asia usually) parts even at twice the price. He has several duplicate parts manufacturers and made in USA replacements that he is showing side by side to customers, and has no trouble selling the made in USA bearings etc instead of the much cheaper OEM part.

So if you can give me a location to look up some of those "opt out" new combines the article ONLY SUGGESTED MIGHT HAPPEN, (it was clearly if you read the whole article not discussing real events). I know someone who has TODAY customers waiting impatiently for machines the manufacturer cannot make and deliver fast enough.

JIT is now breaking, but some people are adapting, and not by buying their paper goods from Poland rather than China either.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby TWilliam » Thu 13 Aug 2009, 12:49:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'A')re you having trouble locating products that you want to buy at your local Walmart? Is that super glue you wanted to buy unavailable because it is stuck in a Chinese dock somewhere?

Not so much at Wal~mart, as there's very little that we actually buy there, apart from some cleaning and some personal care items. There are however a number of favored food items that we normally acquire from various grocery stores that have frequently gone missing from the shelves lately, sometimes across several re-stocking cycles. Something we rarely if ever experienced in the past.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby the48thronin » Sat 15 Aug 2009, 01:37:53

So the signs are now everywhere, and people who read much of this thread can now recognize them..

My wife walked through the SAME wallyworld in Indiana, Friday evening.

She took pictures and a slide show is available!

Image

It's time to begin a new discussion, Now that the JIT has broken, what steps will retailers take to remain competitive and keep a semblance of fully stocked to their shelves.

What effect will this have on the start up manufacturing that always springs into life as workers lose their jobs working for the corporation and begin to try to make it on their own?

If you are a dog robber in the corporate structure, how can you place the ides that will be required for survival of the corporation in front of the BOSS and make a difference to those you work with, or can those who bury their heads in the sand compete with the dead ideas of last centuries business Management theories and their failed practices.

What changes will help secure survival for the most possible people when the complexities overcome the adaptability and systemic failures begin.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby biofuel13 » Sat 15 Aug 2009, 12:47:53

I had to grab this from another thread and post it here as it fits right in here and helps confirm the beginning of the breakdown.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 's')ome time ago I decided that the grocery stores would probably *pare down* and stop carrying so many varieties of the same thing. Yesterday the store director spent all day in our produce department pulling all the items we sell small amounts of. (Tofu, tofu cheese, fruit dips, etc.) Looks like we're going back to staples.

edited to add:

day before yesterday our shelves got down to bare (gave me an opportunity to clean them!) but the publics reaction was BAD. Many, many angry people wanting to know where the food was, they were going to call corporate, etc. A morbidly obese lady and her morbidly obese family had a complete meltdown (THIS WILL NOT DO) had to get the store director and she flipped out. Whats coming isn't going to be pretty, and I got a tiny taste of it Thursday. These people WILL kill each other to get food.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Sat 15 Aug 2009, 12:51:50

What all did they want so bad? :lol:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', '&')quot;Taste the sizzling fury of fajita skillet death you marauding zombie goon!"

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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby JJ » Sat 15 Aug 2009, 16:21:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'W')hat all did they want so bad? :lol:

RSG, this is not dramatic. Avocados. She was yelling at me that the remaining ten avocados were all mushy, and I told her "don't buy them". Poor choice of words.
The other customers were alarmed because the shelves were so bare. We were sold out of all varieties of tomatoes, peppers, the avocados were almost gone, salads, etc. The department was really, really bare, but this was not a JIT issue, Bill didn't order enough because our gross was so bad, he was afraid to order too much.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby Novus » Sat 15 Aug 2009, 23:08:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 'A') morbidly obese lady and her morbidly obese family had a complete meltdown (THIS WILL NOT DO) had to get the store director and she flipped out. Whats coming isn't going to be pretty, and I got a tiny taste of it Thursday. These people WILL kill each other to get food.

Wow that is funny. Fat Obscenity deleted. wouldn't last a day in world were this is going.
Last edited by Ferretlover on Wed 19 Aug 2009, 14:39:28, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Deleted obscenity. Cussing not allowed.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby Caffeine » Sun 16 Aug 2009, 02:07:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'W')ow that is funny. Fat Obscenity deleted. wouldn't last a day in world were this is going.

You sure about that? Having a store of calories in a place that's difficult for others to steal is a competitive advantage. Having a slower metabolism than the average is a competitive advantage. :)
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby Novus » Sun 16 Aug 2009, 02:27:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caffeine', 'Y')ou sure about that? Having a store of calories in a place that's difficult for others to steal is a competitive advantage. Having a slower metabolism than the average is a competitive advantage. :)

Surviving the first days and weeks will be mental. Fat Obscenity deleted. will not be prepared to handle the initial breakdown of our prepackaged lives of convenience. She had a mental break down because supermarket ran out of avocados.

Image
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby kublikhan » Mon 17 Aug 2009, 17:50:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', 'S')o I talked to my agribusiness friend who laughed when I sent him your linked article. So if you can give me a location to look up some of those "opt out" new combines the article ONLY SUGGESTED MIGHT HAPPEN, (it was clearly if you read the whole article not discussing real events). I know someone who has TODAY customers waiting impatiently for machines the manufacturer cannot make and deliver fast enough.
Does the guy you talked to only sell domestically? The article mentioned domestic sales remained strong. But there was some weakening coming from Europe, Russia and parts of South America. Also, check out this link:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')ccording to the Association of Equipment Manufacturers, West Allis, Wis., total U.S. farm tractor sales were down only 22.6 percent year to date through May, compared with the same period a year earlier. Sales of four-wheel drive tractors actually increased 7.7 percent, while sales of self-propelled combines were up 32.7 percent in the same comparison.

Adding to the weakness in steel demand is a buildup of finished equipment inventories. Rubin McDougal says he believes it is necessary for both farm and construction equipment makers to reduce their, and their dealers’, inventories before increasing production in the current economic environment. In the first quarter, his company had a 4.3-month supply of tractors in inventory worldwide, up from 3.8 months during the first quarter of 2008. Combine inventories were 4.2 months, compared with 3.5 months a year earlier.

But there are signs farm sentiment is moderating. “2009 is a correction year with the market getting back down to a more normal level of activity,” says Agco’s Stucke. “Farmers are conservative by nature, so with all the negative news out there, they are slow to make additional purchases even though most of the farm fundamentals are still strong.”
Farm Equipment Market

Farm equipment sales still seem to be doing better than the general economy. But this still doesn't change my original opinion on this subject. IE, farm equipment demand was hit by a large surge in demand driven by rising world commodity prices and competition from biofuels. Equipment manufacturers cannot simply flip a switch and ramp up supply to match demand. With such a mismatch between supply and demand, you are going to see rising premiums, long waiting lists, and shortages. However I don't agree with you conclusion that this is just another sign of the beginning of the end of JIT distribution. Rather, it is a classic supply-demand problem caused by a large surge in demand. If there really was a breakdown in JIT distribution as you suggest, we should be seeing less product being moved. Instead, we see headlines like this:
Farm Equipment Exports Surge by 30.5%

Agco beats estimate, ups forecast, shares surge

CNH Global profit tops Street view, shares surge
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby JJ » Mon 17 Aug 2009, 18:16:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Caffeine', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', 'W')ow that is funny. Fat Obscenity deleted. wouldn't last a day in world were this is going.
You sure about that? Having a store of calories in a place that's difficult for others to steal is a competitive advantage. Having a slower metabolism than the average is a competitive advantage. :)
Surviving the first days and weeks will be mental. Fat ass will not be prepared to handle the initial breakdown of our prepackaged lives of convenience. She had a mental break down because supermarket ran out of avocados.

yep.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby the48thronin » Mon 17 Aug 2009, 20:02:36

as my post clearly states.. and your quote agrees with although I do not know what brands the person quoted sells ( and yes some brands are eating the others lunch in some machinery.)


Combines sales are not slow in a 5 state region of the USA.

I can now state because the time to keep all secret is past that the part is short supply is a rebuild kit for a certain combine.

My friend has since shifting from jit supply to part on hand secured 200 percent of his normal harvest parts load of all but one very important kit which he has only 120 percent of his normal sales load. ( after much struggle as the manufacturer only had 50% of his one company's sales load for the entire USA to share .

That one part is already among the dealers involved in critical shortage, and there is no replacement or similar to replace with. so far he is running slightly ahead of last years pace selling that part only to farmers directly. His possession of that part and others that are spot shortages growing on has already increased his new equipment customer base as farmers come to get that all important part and place orders for machinery etc to become regular new customers.

FWIW my friend says credit problems are few and far between in th size agribusinesses he deals with so far, manufacturer financing and outside financing is still available to successful farm businesses.

He is in fact expanding his stock order for tractors and some machinery including combines for next year with all units ordered already sold and a need for additional stocking to have machinery on hand. So if that quote was from a dealer they are losing while he is gaining as all his equipment needs are faced with back oder from the manufacturer not stock on hand.

Oh and his parts on hand stance has caused him to begin negotiating with a truck manufacturer for a franchise to sell their tractors ( road trucks for farms) and a construction manufacturer who both came hat in hand asking him to consider opening co-owner branches in several towns to sell and service construction machinery and trucks under lease contract on the same basis.. The point JIT has failed here in the USA ( I know nothing of conditions in Europe or Africa or Asia nor do I care actually) and people who leave dependency on JIT and return to part on hand are now reaping the advantage of not facing shortage of part or stock. Yes at some cost.. may i throw in the term "added value" as a hint to what they are seeking.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby kublikhan » Tue 18 Aug 2009, 18:24:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', 'T')he point JIT has failed here in the USA ( I know nothing of conditions in Europe or Africa or Asia nor do I care actually) and people who leave dependency on JIT and return to part on hand are now reaping the advantage of not facing shortage of part or stock. Yes at some cost.. may i throw in the term "added value" as a hint to what they are seeking.
I think you are drawing false conclusions based on the facts you state.

Fact: many dealers in US are experiencing a shortage of "part a".
Conclusion: JIT system in US has broken down.

How about this instead:
Fact: many dealers in US are experiencing a shortage of "part a".
Conclusion: demand for "part a" surged far higher because of a boom in farm and biofuel demand. With supply unable to ramp up quickly enough to match demand, shortages ensued.

I am not disputing the facts you state about your dealer friend. I am disputing the conclusions you draw from those facts. I don't see anything here that cannot be explained by supply and demand fundamentals. Yes, people who are lucky enough to get "part a" can make a nice premium selling to those who don't have it. That doesn't mean the entire system is broken. It just means supplies are insufficient to meet demand. During the holiday shopping season when parents rush toys r us and find out that "tickle me elmo" is not in stock, it's not that the distribution system that delivers "tickle me elmo" has broken down. It's that demand has overwhelmed supply. If some shopper managed to get his hands on a few dozen "tickle me elmos", he can then sell them on ebay for a large premium over retail.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Tue 18 Aug 2009, 22:59:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RedStateGreen', 'W')hat all did they want so bad? :lol:
RSG, this is not dramatic. Avocados. She was yelling at me that the remaining ten avocados were all mushy, and I told her "don't buy them". Poor choice of words.

Mushy avocados are great for guacamole. :) But yeah I don't suppose it was a good thing to say to her. :badgrin:

ETA: I would be surprised at empty shelves but to be so stressed out you're yelling at the staff ... well, there's other issues at work there.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Tue 18 Aug 2009, 23:03:37

Forgot to add my input: last night we went to the local dairy/fast food/ice cream place (Brahms), and they were completely out of whole milk. Like none there.

I've never seen anything like it. They had lots of 2% so we ended up getting that. But it was weird.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby the48thronin » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 14:18:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kublikhan', 'H')ow about this instead: Fact: many dealers in US are experiencing a shortage of "part a". Conclusion: demand for "part a" surged far higher because of a boom in farm and biofuel demand. --snip-- It's that demand has overwhelmed supply. If some shopper managed to get his hands on a few dozen "tickle me elmos", he can then sell them on ebay for a large premium over retail.

Before I answer this. I have some questions for you. What is JIT specifically
What does it accomplish and why

I begin to think we have different definitions because "That doesn't mean the entire system is broken. It just means supplies are insufficient to meet demand." sometimes to continue an intelligent discussion you have to go back and check definitions.
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby the48thronin » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 14:25:37

One reply needs no definitions,

A discussion of morals, ethics and business practices.

Instead of selling those TME dolls on ebay at a profit, that same toy store owner ( if that was his business) who had them could have made business connections to his customers by being the only toy store in town that had an adequate supply to meet the demand, selling them at normal price would make him new customers who remembered the place to shop when you don't want to find 'sold out" stores.. now that is Value added in reality...
Anyone can make one sale, the added value of being a dependable supply can make a lifetime or generations of sales.

HMMM ethics... imagine that!

Refusing to sell them to competing toy stores.. HMMM imagine that!
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby TWilliam » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 14:34:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('the48thronin', 'H')MMM ethics... imagine that!

Hmmm yea, imagine indeed. That's the only place you're likely to find them in this day and age... :cry:
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Re: Signs of the beginning of the breakdown of JIT distribution.

Unread postby rangerone314 » Wed 19 Aug 2009, 14:40:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', 'A') morbidly obese lady and her morbidly obese family had a complete meltdown (THIS WILL NOT DO) had to get the store director and she flipped out. Whats coming isn't going to be pretty, and I got a tiny taste of it Thursday. These people WILL kill each other to get food.
Wow that is funny. Fat Obscenity deleted. wouldn't last a day in world were this is going.

Ever read "The Road"? She'd be one of those people imprisoned as food source.
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