[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '
')First they should pay down all their government debt. Then put all the windfall in a
Sovereign Wealth Fund, just like Norway or Abu Dhabi does.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '
')First they should pay down all their government debt. Then put all the windfall in a
Sovereign Wealth Fund, just like Norway or Abu Dhabi does.

[Denny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Starvid', '
')First they should pay down all their government debt. Then put all the windfall in a
Sovereign Wealth Fund, just like Norway or Abu Dhabi does.

[MOCKBA]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I')f you were dropped into downtown Calgary you'd have a hard time knowing you were not in Denver, exept for the red and white flags.

[MrBill]

Well, actually as clueless as I appear to be, Alberta does have its own sovereign wealth management fund, but it is called simply Alberta Investment Management, which is not nearly as sexy! ; - )

To be brutally honest I have to steal an argument from another poster about Norway's sovereign wealth fund, but I cannot even give kudos without going back and finding it. So whoever it was, thank you for the idea.

His argument was simply, okay, so you save for a rainy day, but what happens when you have run out of oil & gas and due to peak oil whatever you have invested in goes down in value as well? A simple, but brilliant question!

The answer is that you are no better off than had you simply spent the money in the first place.

So yes, Alberta certainly should pay down debt, but they have been anyway. Even before the oil & gas boom they were tightening their belt and cutting back on public services. That makes the boom even more painful as they are caught out short on those public services. But as rockdock said, who was predicting $90 per barrel oil (actually $95 today) back in the dark days of 1998? Less than 10-years ago!

Then your best return on investment is not some cheesey investment fund, so you can lend to other dead beats that cannot manage their finances properly, like the Heritage Trust Fund consistantly did, but to improve your own infrastructure. Like for example building your own refineries instead of exporting crude. And like any public company if you cannot find a good use for those funds then return it to shareholders in the form of lower taxes. The goal of government should be to run balanced budgets. Surpluses are no more desirable than deficits. Surpluses just invite governments with all their wisdom to spend money needlessly.

Cut the individual highest marginal tax burden from 49% to 24.5% and then watch Alberta grow. That will do more for the economy than $95 oil! ; - )

[MrBill]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MOCKBA', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I')f you were dropped into downtown Calgary you'd have a hard time knowing you were not in Denver, exept for the red and white flags.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut those costs are still tax deductible. Even if the royalty schemes are changed, costs are costs, and therefore they are deducted off the top of revenues before taxes are paid on profits. Sorry that is how it works.

And obviously $90 per barrel generates different levels of royalties and taxation than $30 per barrel. Not 3X, but more. The Alberta government is talking about raising royalties 20%, not 300%, so they are hardly clawing back all the price increase. But companies can and will still be elligible to write off 100% of their expenses and, of course, if there are any losses carry them forward.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '
')
I think it is a well recognized historical truth that business friendly taxation creates more tax wealth for governments than when draconian tax measures are implemented. As one of the CEO's of a major Canadian oil company said "oil and gas that is left in the ground is no good to anyone.....you don't collect tax from it and it doesn't increase anyone's wealth".

Perhaps you are too young to remember the NEB and how devastating it was for Alberta. The numbers I've seen suggest we will see similar affects, perhaps not immediately but certainly by 4th quarter 08.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you want to quote sources to support whether the Alta govt is doing the right thing, the CEO of an oil company isn't the most impartial.

[Blacksmith]

Run all the numbers you want, the current royality program is a comprimise which the government has been critized for. Some companies will not be able to raise money and some will fold or be sold off. That business. Politician will say they gave too much and did not take enough or did not see the big picture. That's politics. And when the dust settles it will be business as usual because we need the oil and gas.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', ' ')After the painful experiences of the eighties where we had to downsize noone wants to have to do it again, ever. I haven't heard that term expressed by senior exec for a long long time....until just recently.
.

[MrBill]

rockdoc123 wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')erhaps you are too young to remember the NEB and how devastating it was for Alberta. The numbers I've seen suggest we will see similar affects, perhaps not immediately but certainly by 4th quarter 08.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n theory zero taxes would maximize employment and corporate profits. But how realistic is that when your public are demanding schools, roads, hospitals, police, healthcare and pensions? There has to be a fair tax burden, and at 10% Alberta corporate tax is already very low compared to almost anywhere else in the world. There is also no Provincial sales tax. You mentioned Norway. 28% corporate tax and VAT of 23%. The North Sea? The UK has 30% corporate tax and 17.5% VAT versus the Canadian GST of 6%.

[threadbear]

RocDoc, I use the term subsidize loosely, as in, any govt that short changes itself, at the behest of business. I think the important thing to remember here is, Canada's citizens are doing the oil companies a favour by letting them drill or mine tar sands, not the other way around. Though we should try to refrain from developing an adversary relationship with oil corporations, our citizens should be the cop on the beat to make sure that a handshake between corporation and govt. doesn't become a mutual cuddle, that excludes the kids, and then devolve into the corporate rape of an entire province.

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'W')ell, actually as clueless as I appear to be, Alberta does have its own sovereign wealth management fund, but it is called simply Alberta Investment Management, which is not nearly as sexy! ; - )

To be brutally honest I have to steal an argument from another poster about Norway's sovereign wealth fund, but I cannot even give kudos without going back and finding it. So whoever it was, thank you for the idea.

His argument was simply, okay, so you save for a rainy day, but what happens when you have run out of oil & gas and due to peak oil whatever you have invested in goes down in value as well? A simple, but brilliant question!

The answer is that you are no better off than had you simply spent the money in the first place.

[rockdoc123]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')think the important thing to remember here is, Canada's citizens are doing the oil companies a favour by letting them drill or mine tar sands, not the other way around. Though we should try to refrain from developing an adversary relationship with oil corporations, our citizens should be the cop on the beat to make sure that a handshake between corporation and govt. doesn't become a mutual cuddle, that excludes the kids, and then devolve into the corporate rape of an entire province

[MrBill]

rockdoc123 wrote:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou seem to miss the point that I am on the inside on this....I have seen the numbers we run, I have colleagues in senior positions in many of the Alberta oil companies that behind closed doors reiterate exactly what has been said in the papers.

[Maddog78]

I bet this chap's good old Ed's ass.
Alberta cut some slack on royalty's a month or so ago and B.C. comes right back at him.

http://finance.sympatico.msn.ca/investing/news/businessnews/article.aspx?cp-documentid=21065864


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B').C. offers oil and gas stimulus package to spur investment
THE CANADIAN PRESS
August 06, 2009
VICTORIA, B.C. - The B.C. government is offering a stimulus package to the oil and gas industry to spur investment and boost economic growth.
Energy Minister Blair Lekstrom says the package will generate $2.50 in net revenues within three years for every $1 of royalty credit.
Fifty million dollars will be put into the existing Infrastructure Royalty Credit Program this fall to stimulate investment in roads and pipelines.

snip.........

also something about a windmill.