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Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby sittinguy » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 19:49:39

I come here to talk, I got tierd of be laughed at a long time ago. And I have never ever told anyone what I really think could happen like mad max stuff.

I just hope to god I am wrong.
But I feel it in my gut that we are heading for something really bad.

It kinda sucks, I have a hard time enjoying life sometimes, I don't see happy days ahead.

I told my father in law he should have some cash on hand last week, He jjust shrugged it off. I asked if he did do it then where would he keep it

He said in a safety deposit box at the bank,,,,,,, they don't get it.

Most people won't get it until it hits them in the face.

And at that point, all of us will be home crying our eyes out because we knew, and didn't do more to help convince our loved ones.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby outcast » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 20:52:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')obody would be happier than I if my family's and friend's laughter was justified.



It is justified. There have been many Mathusian doom prophets that have come and gone over the past couple of centuries, all predicting imminent doom and not a single one of them turning out to be right.


There are plenty of people on this site who actually WANT it to be true, they want it to come crashing down. THe problem with PO in particular is that, like Y2K, there is a huge amount of hype surrounding it.


http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com

This should help seperate PO fact from PO fiction.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby Triffin » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 21:06:27

Sniff ...

At least my dog still loves me ..

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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby Kristen » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 21:56:50

Outcast,

of course some people would love to see the collapse of the system we live in. if you look at it all of its flaws and corruption, it's quite easy to despise it. Then there are people like me, who just think life has become so routine and want an adventure..
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby bodigami » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 22:27:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')obody would be happier than I if my family's and friend's laughter was justified.


It is justified. There have been many Mathusian doom prophets that have come and gone over the past couple of centuries, all predicting imminent doom and not a single one of them turning out to be right.
(...)


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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby outcast » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 23:52:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'O')utcast,

of course some people would love to see the collapse of the system we live in. if you look at it all of its flaws and corruption, it's quite easy to despise it. Then there are people like me, who just think life has become so routine and want an adventure..



If you just want a fling there are plenty of broken states in the world. In the first world corruption is at historic lows. If you want an idea as to the extant of the corruption in pre-industrial times, the Palace of Versailles is a testament to it. The world we live in might be flawed, but it is better than what it was. Before, 90% of the people were desperately poor peasants, while the landowning elites, the monarchy, and the church sat on top of them, what role you would play was determined by which caste you were born into, there was no possiblity for advancement in society. Illiteracy was widespread, life expectancy was 30 something, and marriages were all arranged. Disease was rampant, since there was no modern medicine. Personally I find people who want to go back to this to be extremely niave, given how crappy life used to be.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby Kristen » Wed 22 Jul 2009, 23:59:41

Outcast,

I'm not suggesting we return to those times. What I'd like to see is smaller communities that trade with other communities in a peaceful and purposeful way.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby kam3Oen » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 01:15:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')He problem with PO in particular is that, like Y2K, there is a huge amount of hype surrounding it.



PO hype? If you asked 100 random people on the street, how many would even know what peak oil is, and out of those who've heard of it, how many would reject it outright? I belong to various internet forums, and PO isn't even a whisper, and in mainstream popular culture, it's virtually non-existent. There are no characters in sitcoms worrying about it, no daily news coverage, the most it gets are a few fringe documentaries, and a quickly forgotten news special. In the days of Y2K, EVERYONE was talking about it, all the time. People embraced it, because they knew it could easily be conquered. Start a thread in some random forum, explaining PO and it's implications, and you'll see how quickly you are lambasted, or just ignored. I'd even go as far as to say talking about it is taboo, which is why I don't anymore.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby eastbay » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 01:21:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', ' ')THe problem with PO in particular is that, like Y2K, there is a huge amount of hype surrounding it.




Huge amount of hype? Like.... uh, where can we find this huge amount of 'hype'? 8O
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby outcast » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 03:01:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', ' ')THe problem with PO in particular is that, like Y2K, there is a huge amount of hype surrounding it.




Huge amount of hype? Like.... uh, where can we find this huge amount of 'hype'? 8O




doomers.us, LOTC, PO.com, probably a few others out there too.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hat I'd like to see is smaller communities that trade with other communities in a peaceful and purposeful way.


Basically a utopia? I don't see that happening either. What often happens is one (or both) communities would be conquered by stronger, more warlike communities. PO wont undo a million years of evolution.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')O hype?


True there isn't nearly as much media attention, but that doesn't change that many of the proponents (Campbell, Heinburg, etc) keep pushing it as "The Answer" to issues like social injustice (even though there was more injustice before industrialization than after). That is hype.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 07:18:18

There are 8,800,000 refs to peak oil on google right now 3,480,000 on Y2K plus 5,000,000 on the millenium bug making the claim of hype valid to some extent if only on the net.
Whenever I see or hear peak oil in the mainstream media it is immediately followed by the great news of the latest techno fixes.
The percentage of people who dig deep into this to dicover the actual unsurmountability of the problem of peak oil is infentissimal.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby outcast » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 07:53:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')henever I see or hear peak oil in the mainstream media



Whenever I see or hear PO in the mainstream media, it is usually with one of the PO prophets (mostly Simmons) shooting his mouth off about how "The End is Nigh (tm)", or even better is when they make bogus predictions.

Anyone remember this?

"It's going to go higher, maybe way higher. It's not going to collapse. It's not a bubble, not a temporary energy spike."
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby ian807 » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 16:33:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'O')utcast,

I'm not suggesting we return to those times. What I'd like to see is smaller communities that trade with other communities in a peaceful and purposeful way.

LOL. Sure. All the motorcycle gangs, street gangs and organized crime guys and their weapons will just magically disappear and none of the aforementioned would even think about raiding and occupying the nearest settlement that actually managed to build sustainable food and water systems, enslaving the diligent permactulture builders and burning a few townsfolk as an instructive example to the rest.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby ian807 » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 16:51:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')obody would be happier than I if my family's and friend's laughter was justified.
http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com.

Read that first thing, of course. It didn't help.

I know there's lots of oil around. I also know that there's much less cheap oil around, and I know that at a certain point, we hit 2 different walls.

The first "wall" is cost. A lot of the oil (Bakken, for example) is going to be much too expensive to extract. This could be overcome if we're willing to pay, but there are limits to this. The second "wall" is just plain physics. Eventually, you use more energy getting the stuff out than you get from it.

If I remember right, we currently use about 1 barrel of oil to extract 30 (on average). Eventually, that ratio is less than 1 to 1. Absent of some yet, uninvented technology, that's where we stop.

There are things we could do if we started now. We could transition to a much lower energy footprint society fairly easily if we used the remaining oil to invest in nuclear, coal, natural gas, hydro, wind, solar and geothermal energy technologies. We wouldn't be anywhere near as wealthy or able, but we'd all survive.

But it's too late. Really.

Our worldwide "just-in-time" food distribution system runs on money and oil. Sudden disruptions in either mean we don't have so much to eat next year (nothing at all in some cases). Hit the world oil supply hard and fast enough and it might be a very long time before we can make that transitions. A very long time. A lot of use would die in that very long time. That's what I fear now.

It's not oil decline and price increase, per se, that will get us. It's that plus the delicate balance of an extremely complex society that puts us at risk. We're just too near the edge on food, water, manufactured items, medicine, and so on. Putting new energy systems in place and on line takes a lot of time and... energy. Any serious disruption in oil supply (e.g. Russia, Iran, Venezuala and Mexico all stop selling outside their own countries, or the Arab states won't sell to us at all) and we ... stop. For quite a while.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby IgnoranceIsBliss » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 17:30:10

My "friend" laughed because I had a few cans of emergency food in the pantry. (that showed me her intelligence right away) Mind you, this is a college educated woman (finance degree) with two small children who works as a manager at a major bank. But I guess there are no worries in her little world.

Whenever I mention anything to my parents (age 65) they pull a "head in the sand" and say "Can't we talk about something nice?" Same with my husband's 83 and 89 year old grandparents (who have outlived both of their own children).

The only thing we tried to talk to them about was common sense things to do now since they are getting older and are living 2.5 hours away from anyone. They refuse to listen to even the most basic advice like (1) Don't have your life savings in your local's bank's stock [oops, you should have listened to us, now you are down 20% last time we checked] and (2) move closer to your grandchildren so you will have someone to help you if you need it (and you will be a lot further from the beach and hurricane threat).

I guess someone will have to ride out there to rescue them when the time comes. (like a hurricane, one of them passes away, or some kind of major crisis)

As for my husband, he makes passing references to my "doomsday websites" but he will listen sometimes. He thinks along the lines of "things will come back to the way they were, because that always happens."

I would never try to educate anyone that I know around here. We are in major "head in the sand" land and of course, we just sit around waiting for God to work his plan here in Georiga.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby SeaGypsy » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 19:42:25

Don't you love that argument? Things will get back to normal?
Normal as in?
Exponential everything, dwindling resources, population in denial.
Yeah, right, OK normal.
People act and think like this has gone on forever, when in fact if you time machined anyone from 100 years ago to now they would be hard pressed to believe they were really on the same planet.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby JJ » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 20:26:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'D')on't you love that argument? Things will get back to normal?
Normal as in?
Exponential everything, dwindling resources, population in denial.
Yeah, right, OK normal.
People act and think like this has gone on forever, when in fact if you time machined anyone from 100 years ago to now they would be hard pressed to believe they were really on the same planet.


that annoys me to no end. the ignorance of the general public. they have lost the ability to read, so of course nothing could be wrong.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby dunewalker » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 20:58:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'D')on't you love that argument? Things will get back to normal?
Normal as in?
Exponential everything, dwindling resources, population in denial.
Yeah, right, OK normal.
People act and think like this has gone on forever, when in fact if you time machined anyone from 100 years ago to now they would be hard pressed to believe they were really on the same planet.


that annoys me to no end. the ignorance of the general public. they have lost the ability to read, so of course nothing could be wrong.


Not only the ability to read. Also the ability to sense their environment. Humans thousands of years ago couldn't read, but they understood their immediate world--how it worked, what it took to survive.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby outcast » Thu 23 Jul 2009, 22:20:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') also know that there's much less cheap oil around


If we take the massive inflation that has happened the price of oil is about what it always has been.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he second "wall" is just plain physics. Eventually, you use more energy getting the stuff out than you get from it.



Which is irrelevant if you are using electricity.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e could transition to a much lower energy footprint society fairly easily if we used the remaining oil to invest in nuclear, coal, natural gas, hydro, wind, solar and geothermal energy technologies



Most of the time oil isn't used to make electricity, only in small scale generators is this the case, and all of these technologies are being invested in anyway to get off of coal.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut it's too late. Really.


And this is based on?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')it the world oil supply hard and fast enough

That would only happen for political reasons (either an embargo or a terrorist strike).

I can tell you didn't spend much time at that site since most of this stuff was adressed there.
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Re: Do any of you get laughed my your family for being negative?

Postby rangerone314 » Fri 24 Jul 2009, 07:11:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunewalker', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'D')on't you love that argument? Things will get back to normal?
Normal as in?
Exponential everything, dwindling resources, population in denial.
Yeah, right, OK normal.
People act and think like this has gone on forever, when in fact if you time machined anyone from 100 years ago to now they would be hard pressed to believe they were really on the same planet.


that annoys me to no end. the ignorance of the general public. they have lost the ability to read, so of course nothing could be wrong.


Not only the ability to read. Also the ability to sense their environment. Humans thousands of years ago couldn't read, but they understood their immediate world--how it worked, what it took to survive.


Classical example being the Indonesian tsunami that killed 200,000... all the sheeple died but the wild animals and the primitive people running around in loinclothes with spears on islands all went to higher ground and survived.
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