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Americans saving more, spending less

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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Sat 27 Jun 2009, 11:53:29

odegaard, didn't mean to make you squint.

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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sat 27 Jun 2009, 16:57:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'T')he last time I had a talk with Oily he said an unemployment check still counts as "income" so according to him that gets tossed into the equation below:
income - spending == money saved

I wonder what the national "savings rate" would be if we used this formula instead:
income (from a job) - spending == money saved

This clearly indicates, contrary to his post above, that odegaard does not like the official definition of the savings rate.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'a')gain OilFinder2 is hard at work spin doctoring the data. :roll:

Again odegaard does not like the definition so he spins his own.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sat 27 Jun 2009, 17:03:14

From page 4 of this thread:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'T')he problem I have with the original argument is it completely ignores the fact that when a person losses his job, they burn through cash at a much faster rate then what can ever be saved.
If 1 person losses his job he can easily spend $2000 per month. No fun money just paying bills only. (rent, food, car)
But 10 people who decide to cut back on spending can only save how much more money, $200 each maybe? or 10X200=$2000
See what I mean?
1 person who losses his job can burn through cash at a rate equal to 10 people becoming more frugal.
This is why I'm very suspicious of the "savings rate" published by the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Of course it is the job of a government agency to keep the public in the dark! 8)

Right here, in black and white, odegaard tells us he does not like the official definition of the savings rate. Now the lies continue to emanate from his mouth, and he comes around and tells us:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'I') never said anything about liking or not liking the definition.

An obvious, blatant, fat lie.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby vision-master » Sat 27 Jun 2009, 17:40:21

Oily is like a record that keeps skipping. :-D
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby odegaard » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 12:47:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'T')he last time I had a talk with Oily he said an unemployment check still counts as "income" so according to him that gets tossed into the equation below:
income - spending == money saved

I wonder what the national "savings rate" would be if we used this formula instead:
income (from a job) - spending == money saved

This clearly indicates, contrary to his post above, that odegaard does not like the official definition of the savings rate.
ad hom and expletive deleted

There is NO "official definition of the savings rate" given.

The government never explained how they calculated or came up with their numbers.

How can I like or not like something that was never given? :roll:
"They're not too big to fail, they're too big to bail out!" Peter Schiff
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby shortonoil » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 15:04:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ily is like a record that keeps skipping.


Oily, I’m sorry you have to take this abuse (well deserved) day after day just to make a couple of bucks. I’m also sorry about what is going to happen to you when your masters finally realize that you have failed. I’m sure they are going to eat you!


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he FT reported strains in pensions systems, in both private and public provision, threaten to turn the financial crisis over the past two years into a social crisis lasting decades, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development warned on Tuesday.In its annual analysis of the health of the pensions systems around the world, the Paris-based international organization, found that private pensions plans lost 23 per cent of their value last year while higher unemployment “leaves little room for more generous public pensions”.


Since the collapse of Bear Stearns the net worth of the average American household has fallen $149,000.

Saving is a process that occurs until one is absolutely penniless.

{How’s that for a definition?}







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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby odegaard » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 16:03:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '[')b]Oily, I’m sorry you have to take this abuse (well deserved) day after day just to make a couple of bucks. I’m also sorry about what is going to happen to you when your masters finally realize that you have failed. I’m sure they are going to eat you!
I have no idea what OF2's objective is:

possible scenario 1:
Convince people by "trying" to make a logical argument? --> failure

possible scenario 2:
Try to annoy people? --> failure
I happen to enjoy his company. I never get tired of spanking his ass showing him who his daddy is. :mrgreen:

possible scenario 3:
Get paid below minimum wage by TPTB to spy on us. --> probably

//

*back on topic*

income - spending = money saved
I was curious how government calculated the savings rate because there was no official explanation.
Does social welfare payments also count as *income* or does it strictly have to be money earned from a job?
After doing some detective work, I think I found the answer.
AP
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he savings rate, which was hovering near zero in early 2008, surged to 6.9 percent, the highest level since December 1993.

The income increase reflected temporary factors relating to the $787 billion economic stimulus program that President Barack Obama pushed through Congress in February to fight the recession. That program included one-time payments to people receiving Social Security and other government pension benefits.
There's the answer folks.
If government spends money today by borrowing from the future to send stimulus checks to Americans that counts as *income* according to gov. statistics.
Not surprisingly some of this *income* went into people's savings.

I found the answer. NO thanks to OF2, since he never said anything useful.
"They're not too big to fail, they're too big to bail out!" Peter Schiff
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 19:49:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', '[')b]Oily, I’m sorry you have to take this abuse (well deserved) day after day just to make a couple of bucks. I’m also sorry about what is going to happen to you when your masters finally realize that you have failed. I’m sure they are going to eat you!
I have no idea what OF2's objective is:

possible scenario 1:
Convince people by "trying" to make a logical argument? --> failure

possible scenario 2:
Try to annoy people? --> failure
I happen to enjoy his company. I never get tired of spanking his ass showing him who his daddy is. :mrgreen:

possible scenario 3:
Get paid below minimum wage by TPTB to spy on us. --> probably

//

*back on topic*

income - spending = money saved
I was curious how government calculated the savings rate because there was no official explanation.
Does social welfare payments also count as *income* or does it strictly have to be money earned from a job?
After doing some detective work, I think I found the answer.
AP
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he savings rate, which was hovering near zero in early 2008, surged to 6.9 percent, the highest level since December 1993.

The income increase reflected temporary factors relating to the $787 billion economic stimulus program that President Barack Obama pushed through Congress in February to fight the recession. That program included one-time payments to people receiving Social Security and other government pension benefits.
There's the answer folks.
If government spends money today by borrowing from the future to send stimulus checks to Americans that counts as *income* according to gov. statistics.
Not surprisingly some of this *income* went into people's savings.

I found the answer. NO thanks to OF2, since he never said anything useful.


They got a check for $250. :lol:
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 22:01:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'O')nce again Oily blows more hot air out of his ass.

There is NO "official definition of the savings rate" given.

The government never explained how they calculated or came up with their numbers.

How can I like or not like something that was never given? :roll:

If you actually cared to look for it, dimwit, you could find it:
http://www.bea.gov/national/pdf/nipaguid.pdf
^
Pages 11-12 (starting with "Account 3")
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')i]Personal saving (3–8) is personal income less the sum of personal outlays and personal current taxes. It is the current saving of individuals (including proprietors and partnerships), nonprofit institutions that primarily serve households, life insurance carriers, private noninsured welfare funds, private noninsured pension plans, publicly administered government employee retirement plans, and private trust funds. Personal saving may also be viewed as the net acquisition of financial assets (such as cash and deposits, securities, and the change in life insurance and pension fund reserves), plus the net investment in produced assets (such as residential housing, less depreciation), less the net increase in financial liabilities (such as mortgage debt, consumer credit, and security credit), less net capital transfers received.

In other words, as I've told you several times in this thread, it is personal income minus consumption. Maybe if I repeat it several more times it'll eventually sink in. Though I doubt it.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 22:19:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', 'A')fter doing some detective work, I think I found the answer.
AP
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he savings rate, which was hovering near zero in early 2008, surged to 6.9 percent, the highest level since December 1993.

The income increase reflected temporary factors relating to the $787 billion economic stimulus program that President Barack Obama pushed through Congress in February to fight the recession. That program included one-time payments to people receiving Social Security and other government pension benefits.
There's the answer folks.
If government spends money today by borrowing from the future to send stimulus checks to Americans that counts as *income* according to gov. statistics.
Not surprisingly some of this *income* went into people's savings.

I found the answer. NO thanks to OF2, since he never said anything useful.

Since I have already told you and shortonbrains what the definition of personal savings was several times in this thread, yes, I have tried to impart useful information to you, but you automatically dismiss everything I say as some Cornie hogwash and so you ignore it. Having ignored what I've already told you, when the question arises you do some of your own research, and then finally figure out what I've already told you 2 or 3 months ago.

:roll:

Now, as for your article, notice it says there was a rise in personal income from Obama's stimulus plan which was passed "in February." But - and here is a crucial place where you need to pay attention - the savings rate began rising long before February. In fact, it began rising in the 2nd quarter of last year.

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Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Americans saving more, spending less

Unread postby copious.abundance » Sun 28 Jun 2009, 22:30:17

Here ya go - first posted on April 30, almost 2 months ago. After I told odegaard what the definition of personal savings was, he paid absolutely no attention, and just wasted his time today finding out what I already told him.

But hey, I don't mind. If he wants to waste his time that's fine with me! :lol:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '.')..
You are right odegaard - the Bureau of Economic Analysis knows nothing about economics and you know everything!
Once again Oily2 lives up to his reputation of Intellectual dishonesty
the conscious omission of facts known to be relevant in the particular context.
The BEA charts did not factor in unemployment.

You are absolutely correct - the BEA did not factor in unemployment. But there's a really good reason for that: The unemployment rate has absolutely nothing to do with the savings rate. Nor should it. The savings rate is the difference between personal income and consumption. Period.

+ Income
- Consumption
-----------------
= Savings

It makes no difference to the rate if "Income" is high because of an economic boom, or low because of a recession. It just so happens that during recessions, people tend to spend even less than the amount that their income goes down - thus the rise in the savings rate.

If you had actually read some of the articles in this thread you would have learned this. It's obvious you didn't.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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