[Nefarious]

When I was a boy I used to go visit my grandmother. She had a 1 1/4 acre garden. You can get a lot of food from 1 and a 1/4 acres.I remeber hulling purple hull peas for days till my thumbs were so tender they hurt with the slightest touch. Same thing with snap beans 3 or 4 of us sitting around snapping beans for 2 or 3 days. She grew corn, peas,beans,squash,egg plant, potatoes,tomatoes,turnip greens,cabbage,watermelon,lettuce, cucumbers and probably a few things I have forgotten about. That garden gave plenty of food for my grandparents, and aunt and uncle with their 2 kids. left enough over for freezing and canning and gave some to the neighbors. She worked in that garden everyday from sun up till sun down except on Sunday when she went to church but was back in it as soon as she was home. Seems she always had to do something in it regarless of the time of year. She was born in 1914 and had been working in a garden since she was 8 years old according to her. She was in her late 60's early 70's when I used to go to her house for the summer time.
I have to agree with davep you can get a lot out of a little if you know what you're doing. My Grandmother sure did!

[hillsidedigger]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', '
')Note: Many farmable areas would be completely depleted within a few seasons of 2 people per acre production without intensive inputs from off the site.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', '
')Note: Many farmable areas would be completely depleted within a few seasons of 2 people per acre production without intensive inputs from off the site.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', '
')Note: Many farmable areas would be completely depleted within a few seasons of 2 people per acre production without intensive inputs from off the site.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('3aidlillahi', 'T')hanks for the review, Wis. Is it mostly an investigative and reporting book about the farming industry or does it lay out how to accomplish a nation of farmers (by showing how we can be one)?

At only $13 or so on Amazon, I'm adding it to my shopping cart for when I have the funds available.

[hillsidedigger]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nefarious', 'W')hen I was a boy I used to go visit my grandmother. She had a 1 1/4 acre garden. You can get a lot of food from 1 and a 1/4 acres.I remeber hulling purple hull peas for days till my thumbs were so tender they hurt with the slightest touch. Same thing with snap beans 3 or 4 of us sitting around snapping beans for 2 or 3 days. She grew corn, peas,beans,squash,egg plant, potatoes,tomatoes,turnip greens,cabbage,watermelon,lettuce, cucumbers and probably a few things I have forgotten about. That garden gave plenty of food for my grandparents, and aunt and uncle with their 2 kids. left enough over for freezing and canning and gave some to the neighbors. She worked in that garden everyday from sun up till sun down except on Sunday when she went to church but was back in it as soon as she was home. Seems she always had to do something in it regarless of the time of year. She was born in 1914 and had been working in a garden since she was 8 years old according to her. She was in her late 60's early 70's when I used to go to her house for the summer time.
I have to agree with davep you can get a lot out of a little if you know what you're doing. My Grandmother sure did!

[mos6507]

I can only say for myself that whenever I see an acre or two of open land it looks positively immense. The big problem I see with the smaller and smaller plots as you converge down onto the 1/4 acre average suburban lot is the amount of square footage you're actually using for plants dwindles because of the overhead of the house, shed, garage, composting bins, as well as areas too heavily shaded by these or adjacent structures. So you're not really using all of the 1/4 acre, only a small portion of it. Once you get into the acres, the ratio of growing space to dead space is much more favorable. But of course once you get big enough a single household can't work it without a tractor or livestock. Then you're dealing with allocating MORE space for biofuel and grazing, barns, etc... But whatever the ideal size is, we're going to have to deal with the world as it exists. In the future we're going to be constrained in the amount of demolition and new construction we're going to be able to do. The housing development we have today is a monument to 50+ years of energy use. That embodied energy and time invested in manpower is probably well in excess of anything we could muster post-peak to transform it. Even doing something as simple as superinsulating every home is a longshot. The majority of us are going to have to adapt-in-place.

[Pops]

The website for the book - http://anationoffarmers.com/index.php talks about the news stories of people fighting in the line to get free food last year, I don't know how many of you saw those clips but as I remember 80% of those folks were at least 20% overweight.

I'll bet a dollar none had a garden then and don't now and they would laugh at the idea of buying potatoes at the Farmers Market (let alone growing some) since the oil soaked fries at Mickey D's are cheaper, taste better, and are already cooked. The Mouse buys more beef, pork and potatoes than anyone and he ain't eating it all himself.

The arguments about how much land would be required for a different type of food supply at this population level is really moot - we have plenty of food, waste infinitely more and the effort/cost to change would be immense.

It's not that I think we'll always have this system, it's just I doubt we'll have anything different at this population.

[killJOY]

Astyk is the premier peak oil scammer.

She claims to be a "subsistence farmer," yet she runs a website and goes on book tours. "Subsistence farmer" my ass. I grow nearly all my own vegetables and meat, preserve it by canning, salting , and freezing, make cheese, maintain an orchard, cut hay, milk cows, but I'd puke if someone called me a subsistence farmer. I'm a farmer out of choice, not subsistence. I have income through other means, including working on an organic farm.

Astyk likes to repeatedly remind people that she once picked kale when she was 9 months pregnant. So. What. This makes her, like, the expert?

A woman with four kids lecturing the world on how to eat "sustainably" is like a cannibal preaching vegetarianism.

She's another peak oil prognosticator who gazes longingly into the future and sees her own fat ass gazing longingly back.

The line about the era of cheap food being over is just a lie. Food is still dirt cheap by historical standards.


The food crisis that these alarmists like to flog is a figment of their imaginations. When/if there is a liquid fuels crisis, you can bet your ass the industrial agricultural system will be maintained at all costs. There will be allocation of fuel resources. Simply by cutting back on recreational uses for gasoline, the US could keep its current food system running for decades without a blip.

The US is not going to become a nation of farmers. And I could care less. I like to farm, and that's all that matters to me.

[wisconsin_cur]

How do you really feel?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', ' ')I could care less... that's all that matters to me.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('killJOY', 'T')he food crisis that these alarmists like to flog is a figment of their imaginations. When/if there is a liquid fuels crisis, you can bet your ass the industrial agricultural system will be maintained at all costs. There will be allocation of fuel resources. Simply by cutting back on recreational uses for gasoline, the US could keep its current food system running for decades without a blip.

[killJOY]

I realize this morning that my language was a little harsh, and I apologize for that, but I am not going to edit the piece because it does represent my thinking.

The Dude--I think you are right. I wasn't advocating, merely describing what I think will be the case. Take a flight down the east coast (as I did last Feb.) and when you see those sprawling masses of cities you instantly recognize that the die is cast--industrial agriculture is here to stay. Small farming will continue to be a niche for those of us who enjoy doing it.

My ultimate view is the overshoot/dieooff view, and no amount of home canning will ensure survival because of the sheer incomprehension of how this event will transpire.

There are enough farming/gardening books out there. Middle-class intellectuals posing as latter-day Tom Joads (while raking in the attention and the dough) is one of those pretenses that I find particularly noisome.

Subsistence farming is harsh and dangerous. Those of us who have the land to grow our own food are damned lucky.

[hillsidedigger]

Here's an article tiled 'Farming for Nine billion People':

http://greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/ ... on-people/

[killJOY]

Thanks for that article.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow will the world meet the growing energy and food demands of a population projected to approach nine billion in 2050? And how can it do so in a sustainable manner, despite the prospect of climate change?

[TheDude]

Thought a whole big cornerstone of organic was natural herbicides etc.; otherwise it's quasi all way, as Pollan's example of Cascadian Farms, who only take things far enough to insure that BS USDA label.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'J')ared Diamond was right: "Farming" is the very definition of unsustainability! We must farm because we must GROW!

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'T')hought a whole big cornerstone of organic was natural herbicides etc.;

[hillsidedigger]

"Thought a whole big cornerstone of organic was natural herbicides etc.;"

Offhand, I don't know of a natural herbicide. There are natural insecticides but they are of limited need in a properly managed garden.

The inter-planting of a few radish seeds with squash plants gets rid of squash bugs.

The planting of 4 O'Clock flowers in a garden will rid the garden of japanese beetles.

Keeping a few chickens or guinea fowl to run thru a garden and eat bugs is very effective.

[Quinny]

Theres never too many slugs, just not enough ducks..

[Cloud9]

Crockett's Victory Garden is a good read.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hillsidedigger', '
')
Offhand, I don't know of a natural herbicide.