mos - do you seriously think reform is underway? We're still throwing more into the pot: jka on economics UK: Derivatives held by US banks increase to $200 trillion. That's from April.
At the least it will take a few election cycles to clear government houses of all the attendant corruption - which you also don't believe in, all evidence to the contrary. Suggest you read up on the political history of a nation like Mexico, where corruption is as fundamental as vents are to central heating. As it stands you need an unholy amount of money to win high office in the US, and the big banks have more of it than ever.
PeakOil is You
can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
Re: can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
by TheDude » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 18:23:14
Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
And let me tell you something: I dig your work.
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Re: can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
by Plantagenet » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 18:53:13
No worries.
If oil goes to $200 we'll all just buy Chevy Volts from Government Motors with our Obama bailout checks, plug 'em in and keep on rolling.
If oil goes to $200 we'll all just buy Chevy Volts from Government Motors with our Obama bailout checks, plug 'em in and keep on rolling.
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Re: can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
by odegaard » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 19:06:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '.')..
i' ve been kicking the idea around that perhaps past historical examples all owe their ultimate cause to running up against some resource constraint. the dfference in past being that we simply had to move on to other sources of easy to pluck resources. i have nothing concrete to back that up, though, but i do think it's an interesting perspective to take.
...
i' ve been kicking the idea around that perhaps past historical examples all owe their ultimate cause to running up against some resource constraint. the dfference in past being that we simply had to move on to other sources of easy to pluck resources. i have nothing concrete to back that up, though, but i do think it's an interesting perspective to take.
...
Cornucopians like to state that the stone age did not end because we ran out of stones.
That is technically true but......
stone age --> bronze age --> iron --> steel --> the age of plastics
Do you see a pattern here? Every transition phase happened because we found something bigger and better. A material that had superior qualities then the previous: either stronger, lighter, easier to machine, or more versatile.
Now if somebody were to discover a new energy source that has double the energy density and half the cost of crude oil and you can carry it around in a 1 gallon jug container just as easily as you can carry a bottle of water then yeah I guess we can declare that peak oil has been defeated.
and then we can shut down this website and ALL of us would have to go find a new hobby aside from talking about doom and gloom!
Unfortunately every "alternative energy" idea that has been placed on the table is an inferior replacement to oil.
It either has half the energy density, twice the cost, you can't carry it around in a 1 gallon jug container: wind power, solar power, nuclear power --> blah blah blah
Humanity has demonstrated plenty of times an ability to technologically advance by upgrading to a superior material.
however....
There has NEVER been an example of an *uplifting moment* for a society that had to downgrade to an inferior material or resource. NEVER
"They're not too big to fail, they're too big to bail out!" Peter Schiff
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Re: can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
by DantesPeak » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 20:05:06
I think differently about this. We are past peak easy to access and high quality oil. Going forward, the price of oil must - I repeat must - rise faster than other costs just to have enough to keep the economy running in the same place.
As oil becomes harder to obtain, the price of oil will just go higher and higher. The question posed by many is at what point will the economic system becomes so destabilzed that the economy collapses.
If the price rise occurs fairly gradually before the collapse, the price could go to $200 (in 2009 US dollars) or higher first. However I think that the Fed will indirectly monetize the price rise in oil (actually it already has), thereby leading us eventually to a price much higher than $200 before collapse. That might take a few years or so to achieve.
As oil becomes harder to obtain, the price of oil will just go higher and higher. The question posed by many is at what point will the economic system becomes so destabilzed that the economy collapses.
If the price rise occurs fairly gradually before the collapse, the price could go to $200 (in 2009 US dollars) or higher first. However I think that the Fed will indirectly monetize the price rise in oil (actually it already has), thereby leading us eventually to a price much higher than $200 before collapse. That might take a few years or so to achieve.
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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Re: can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
by vision-master » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 20:11:15
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow if somebody were to discover a new energy source that has double the energy density and half the cost of crude oil and you can carry it around in a 1 gallon jug container just as easily as you can carry a bottle of water then yeah I guess we can declare that peak oil has been defeated.
If everyone had free unlimited energy, the only losers would be the kings and queens of our empire. Ain't gonna happen (maybe) until TSHTF.
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Re: can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
by odegaard » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 20:27:47
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '.')..
If everyone had free unlimited energy, the only losers would be the kings and queens of our empire. Ain't gonna happen (maybe) until TSHTF.
If everyone had free unlimited energy, the only losers would be the kings and queens of our empire. Ain't gonna happen (maybe) until TSHTF.
Oil is FREE energy.
Don't you know?
Mother nature made oil.
Oil companies do not "produce" oil.
The oil company simply justs pokes a hole in the ground, extracts the oil, refines it, and then sells it to you.
If you had to pay the "production" costs of oil --> my God it would be very expensive. I don't think anyone would be able to afford it.
"They're not too big to fail, they're too big to bail out!" Peter Schiff
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Re: can the world really afford $200+ a barrel
by Plantagenet » Mon 22 Jun 2009, 20:41:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '
')
If you had to pay the "production" costs of oil --> my God it would be very expensive. I don't think anyone would be able to afford it.
')
If you had to pay the "production" costs of oil --> my God it would be very expensive. I don't think anyone would be able to afford it.
Chemists have been making oil from coal for almost 80 years. WWII Germany and Apartheid South Africa ran on it. Modern chemists can make oil from coal for about 2-3 times the current price of oil ---and methane and ethanol from coal may cost less then we currently pay for oil from Saudi Arabia.
"Methanol from coal could have a production cost of 40 to 64 cents a gallon, according to a 2003 study by the National Renewable Energy Laboratory that compared seven systems - including some developed during the US synfuels heyday. The Methanol Institute, a Washington trade group, this spring pegged the fuel's wholesale cost at 76 cents a gallon.
Methanol can be used directly as a fuel. Indy race cars have used it for years.
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