[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunny', '.')... the cost of actually making the the oil.. or coal.. ie trap the solar energy in biomass and then subject to astronomical inputs of more energy in the form of pressure and heat. If the oil companies actually "made" oil it'd be worth a million bucks a litre.

Mick.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '
')I knew you would say that. There is always another bullsh@t explanation, before, during, and after the fact and a million reasons why things don't work and it is always open to debate

[Nefarious]

I wouldn't mind seeing a graph that correlated the number of home loan defaults with the oil price spike. How many defaults 3 months before the spike to 3 months after the spike. Then look at what the average default percentage was since the conception of the new greenspan loans and see if the average stays the same until the spike hit or if it was steadily on the rise before the spike.

[dunny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunny', '.')... the cost of actually making the the oil.. or coal.. ie trap the solar energy in biomass and then subject to astronomical inputs of more energy in the form of pressure and heat. If the oil companies actually "made" oil it'd be worth a million bucks a litre.

Mick.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dunny', ' ')The process you are describing has nothing to do with how oil and coal were formed

[IslandCrow]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
Which brings up a good question: what will people forego to afford $200/bbl oil?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Makes my point either way; demand from some source will keep prices high.

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')Which brings up a good question: what will people forego to afford $200/bbl oil?

[mos6507]

There is such tremendous fat to be cut it's not even funny. If you want to see what people do when they lose their jobs, ask around at all your unemployed friends. Ask them how they are getting by. Odds are they aren't in a tent city looking like around for Sally Struthers. They are crashing with buddies or family. How far can that go? Look at an illegal immigrant household, 10 people in a 1BR apartment, all of them working sporadic sub-minimum wage jobs. Yes, it reaches a point of diminishing returns, but it can go pretty damn far before the malthusian die off sets in. Conservation in the form of forced poverty works just as well in making the most of a limited resource as deliberate powerdown.

[wisconsin_cur]

But how long before people get fed up and burn something down? Respond to a charismatic leader? Scapegoat "the other"?

The United States is a pretty entitled bunch, living ten families to a house is for other people, the people we hire to fix our toilets it is not for us. And those lower on the food chain. The privlidged will demand to be heard and will cry for blood.

How long before long grudges come back to the surface? I drove through an unfamilar part of St. Paul/Minneapolis last week. I drove by a lot of very expensive houses and condos. Crossed the bridge into Minneapolis and the community was not revitalized. Those who can afford expensive fuel are only 300 yards away from those who cannot. When one group is giving up their latte, the other is giving up eating. I wonder how long that will last?

Sure there is a lot of "fat" to trim. The problem is the fat has a name and a family and a sense of self-respect, a sense of entitlement, they have emotions, and they have firearms. This is not an economic problem, it is a people problem. You can make the economics work as long as people act like abandoned factories and go quietly into the night but they are not and they will not.

Only a fool pretends that they will.

[hironegro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('odegaard', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', '.')..
i' ve been kicking the idea around that perhaps past historical examples all owe their ultimate cause to running up against some resource constraint. the dfference in past being that we simply had to move on to other sources of easy to pluck resources. i have nothing concrete to back that up, though, but i do think it's an interesting perspective to take.
...

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')Sure there is a lot of "fat" to trim. The problem is the fat has a name and a family and a sense of self-respect, a sense of entitlement, they have emotions, and they have firearms. This is not an economic problem, it is a people problem. You can make the economics work as long as people act like abandoned factories and go quietly into the night but they are not and they will not.

Only a fool pretends that they will.

[hillsidedigger]

Currently I would guess one third of the world's people cannot afford $20 per barrel oil.

The middle third can't afford $60 per barrel oil.

The top 2% might be able to afford $200 per barrel oil but that's all.

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'B')ut how long before people get fed up and burn something down? Respond to a charismatic leader? Scapegoat "the other"?

The United States is a pretty entitled bunch, living ten families to a house is for other people, the people we hire to fix our toilets it is not for us. And those lower on the food chain. The privlidged will demand to be heard and will cry for blood.

How long before long grudges come back to the surface? I drove through an unfamilar part of St. Paul/Minneapolis last week. I drove by a lot of very expensive houses and condos. Crossed the bridge into Minneapolis and the community was not revitalized. Those who can afford expensive fuel are only 300 yards away from those who cannot. When one group is giving up their latte, the other is giving up eating. I wonder how long that will last?

Sure there is a lot of "fat" to trim. The problem is the fat has a name and a family and a sense of self-respect, a sense of entitlement, they have emotions, and they have firearms. This is not an economic problem, it is a people problem. You can make the economics work as long as people act like abandoned factories and go quietly into the night but they are not and they will not.

Only a fool pretends that they will.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'B')ut how long before people get fed up and burn something down? Respond to a charismatic leader? Scapegoat "the other"?

The United States is a pretty entitled bunch, living ten families to a house is for other people, the people we hire to fix our toilets it is not for us. And those lower on the food chain. The privlidged will demand to be heard and will cry for blood.

How long before long grudges come back to the surface? I drove through an unfamilar part of St. Paul/Minneapolis last week. I drove by a lot of very expensive houses and condos. Crossed the bridge into Minneapolis and the community was not revitalized. Those who can afford expensive fuel are only 300 yards away from those who cannot. When one group is giving up their latte, the other is giving up eating. I wonder how long that will last?

Sure there is a lot of "fat" to trim. The problem is the fat has a name and a family and a sense of self-respect, a sense of entitlement, they have emotions, and they have firearms. This is not an economic problem, it is a people problem. You can make the economics work as long as people act like abandoned factories and go quietly into the night but they are not and they will not.

Only a fool pretends that they will.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')Sure there is a lot of "fat" to trim. The problem is the fat has a name and a family and a sense of self-respect, a sense of entitlement, they have emotions, and they have firearms. This is not an economic problem, it is a people problem. You can make the economics work as long as people act like abandoned factories and go quietly into the night but they are not and they will not.

Only a fool pretends that they will.

[Spanktron9]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')Sure there is a lot of "fat" to trim. The problem is the fat has a name and a family and a sense of self-respect, a sense of entitlement, they have emotions, and they have firearms. This is not an economic problem, it is a people problem. You can make the economics work as long as people act like abandoned factories and go quietly into the night but they are not and they will not.

Only a fool pretends that they will.