i have around £4000 of debts (about $7000 I guess) not including my mortgage
since i feel peak oil will 'arrive' early next year I'm not sure whether I should try and pay them off or save the money
on one hand if i lose my job having debts to pay is an added burden
on the other its possible that mass defaults on debts will occur and in the turmoil debts will be 'frozen' as people refuse or are unable to pay them back. Many will blame the economic system for getting them into debt and the world into a mess over oil! So paying back my debts wouldn't make a lot of sense
If I save as much money as I can (I have no savings) then I can use it anyway I need
This assumes the value of money holds.... gold?
If money devalues and we get inflation and high interest rates those debts will never get repaid
I wonder what happened in the depression and germany in the 20's...
My instinct is to pay back those debts, but who to and why?
If the economy goes pear shaped then there will be no profits to be made
If the system encouraged debt then discredits itself entirely (by collapsing due to greed) then doesn't that in effect let us all off our personal debts?
Martin
PeakOil is You
should we pay off debts?
by OilBurner » Mon 19 Jul 2004, 09:06:28
My gut feeling is to pay off debts as then you are in a better position no matter what happens. Even if PO is 30 years away.
However, that's not what I've done - but I would if I had the option!! Who wants to be lining someone elses pocket with interest if you can help it? Especially if times turn hard - you could do with that money yourself!
However, that's not what I've done - but I would if I had the option!! Who wants to be lining someone elses pocket with interest if you can help it? Especially if times turn hard - you could do with that money yourself!
Burning the midnight oil, whilst I still can.
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by smiley » Mon 19 Jul 2004, 09:59:33
Well I hate debts, and I’m totally debt free at the moment. But this is just personally; I don’t like to be dependent on someone else.
Realistically a relatively small debt ($10.000) is not a problem. I expect the interest rates to rise due to peakoil, so you should expect to spend more to maintain your debt. On the other hand inflation will decrease the relative size of your debt.
The only problem occurs when your debt is too large compared to your income. If you’re already on the limit of what you can afford then rising rates can be disastrous.
Another thing you have to consider is unemployment. Peakoil will most likely result in an economic crisis of some sort. Some of us will probably loose their jobs. When you take out a loan you have to as yourself: If I loose my job, will I be able to repay these debts?
Realistically a relatively small debt ($10.000) is not a problem. I expect the interest rates to rise due to peakoil, so you should expect to spend more to maintain your debt. On the other hand inflation will decrease the relative size of your debt.
The only problem occurs when your debt is too large compared to your income. If you’re already on the limit of what you can afford then rising rates can be disastrous.
Another thing you have to consider is unemployment. Peakoil will most likely result in an economic crisis of some sort. Some of us will probably loose their jobs. When you take out a loan you have to as yourself: If I loose my job, will I be able to repay these debts?
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by Fred » Mon 19 Jul 2004, 10:03:40
Gotta have a place to live and unless you're independently wealthy or your parents are and you're just starting out there's not much way to get a place to live unless you rent other than finance a home unfortunately. Same thing happens when renting as financing a home. Loose your job, loose your place to live.
- Fred
debts
by Oilboil » Mon 19 Jul 2004, 20:27:18
When all the debts procured in the name of governments, corporations and the financial wizards pay of their debts, I will then worry about mine. Blood is not extractable from a rock no more than money will be from folks around the world who will find themselves unemployed. Trillions around the world will go unpaid and the billionaries know that. Hence every type of spin and wind is being used to keep the economy seemingly, growing, while they cover their butts and secure their positions in the new world order. All of us must do the same. Survival, not a good credit rating, is all that matters.
- Oilboil
by JayHMorrison » Mon 19 Jul 2004, 23:07:17
If the entire world is going to fall apart next year, why do you care about your credit rating? :D
It depends on whether it is secured (car, house) or unsecured debt (credit card). If it is secured debt, you should pay it because they will take your stuff if you do not pay. If it is a credit card, they have to sue you and then chase you for the money.
It all depends on your current situation.
Personally, if I REALLY thought the world was going to crash next year, I would get a bunch of credit cards with high limits. You can easily get $100,000 in credit card limits with a good credit history. Then I would just take all of the cash out and bank it. Go buy the things you think you will need post peak. (farm, solar panels, horse, whatever)
I do have about $50,000 in available credit limits. I am gradually working that up. $100,000 is easy. $200,000 is possible.
It depends on whether it is secured (car, house) or unsecured debt (credit card). If it is secured debt, you should pay it because they will take your stuff if you do not pay. If it is a credit card, they have to sue you and then chase you for the money.
It all depends on your current situation.
Personally, if I REALLY thought the world was going to crash next year, I would get a bunch of credit cards with high limits. You can easily get $100,000 in credit card limits with a good credit history. Then I would just take all of the cash out and bank it. Go buy the things you think you will need post peak. (farm, solar panels, horse, whatever)
I do have about $50,000 in available credit limits. I am gradually working that up. $100,000 is easy. $200,000 is possible.
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by JayHMorrison » Tue 20 Jul 2004, 17:07:12
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JayHMorrison', '
')
Personally, if I REALLY thought the world was going to crash next year, I would get a bunch of credit cards with high limits. You can easily get $100,000 in credit card limits with a good credit history. Then I would just take all of the cash out and bank it. Go buy the things you think you will need post peak. (farm, solar panels, horse, whatever)
')
Personally, if I REALLY thought the world was going to crash next year, I would get a bunch of credit cards with high limits. You can easily get $100,000 in credit card limits with a good credit history. Then I would just take all of the cash out and bank it. Go buy the things you think you will need post peak. (farm, solar panels, horse, whatever)
People are reading that and little light bulbs are lighting up above their heads. "Hmmm, will Equifax, Trans Union and Experian still be around after the crash?"
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by Pops » Tue 20 Jul 2004, 17:21:19
The "Crash" won't happen overnight, so don't get your hopes up.
There have been lenders collecting on their loans for thousands of years; I don't think they will simply fold up their tent because Dan Rather says oil is in permanent decline. Probably just the opposite, bankruptcy is getting harder to declare all the time.
Own what you need. If you think the economy will get very bad very soon perhaps you should sell your Jet Ski today and start paying off some of that debt.
If you look around at your McMansion and wonder how you are going to pay the mortgage or even heat it, perhaps you should consider selling now while values are up, renting for a while until they drop, and then buy something smaller with a big lot – if you think that is the way to go.
There have been lenders collecting on their loans for thousands of years; I don't think they will simply fold up their tent because Dan Rather says oil is in permanent decline. Probably just the opposite, bankruptcy is getting harder to declare all the time.
Own what you need. If you think the economy will get very bad very soon perhaps you should sell your Jet Ski today and start paying off some of that debt.
If you look around at your McMansion and wonder how you are going to pay the mortgage or even heat it, perhaps you should consider selling now while values are up, renting for a while until they drop, and then buy something smaller with a big lot – if you think that is the way to go.
The legitimate object of government, is to do for a community of people, whatever they need to have done, but can not do, at all, or can not, so well do, for themselves -- in their separate, and individual capacities.
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
-- Abraham Lincoln, Fragment on Government (July 1, 1854)
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by Guest » Wed 21 Jul 2004, 04:26:34
but that ignores the latest trend in consumer capitalism
consumers are now expected to be in debt. we have been given cheap loans and to increase consumption and therefore profits we have been *almost* forced into taking loans
I get junk mail all the time, one signature away from thousands of pounds
Its the system, millions of people now have debts
Its a debt economy
Citizens realising they are taxed and in debt, by a system that has let them down will hardly be willing to pay back loans that they were encouraged to take out in the first place
Its like the poll tax here in the UK. People rioted in the streets and decided not to pay it! The government were forced to introduce a different tax
I just don't believe our current economic system will survive peak oil because its based on cheap oil!!!
Martin
consumers are now expected to be in debt. we have been given cheap loans and to increase consumption and therefore profits we have been *almost* forced into taking loans
I get junk mail all the time, one signature away from thousands of pounds
Its the system, millions of people now have debts
Its a debt economy
Citizens realising they are taxed and in debt, by a system that has let them down will hardly be willing to pay back loans that they were encouraged to take out in the first place
Its like the poll tax here in the UK. People rioted in the streets and decided not to pay it! The government were forced to introduce a different tax
I just don't believe our current economic system will survive peak oil because its based on cheap oil!!!
Martin
- Guest
by The_Virginian » Wed 21 Jul 2004, 05:15:39
Martin,
Even if you immediate creditors colapsed, they themselves would go into recievership, and the debt would be inherited by a diffrent coparartion...
that corp. will try to get the debt out of you. (they will be more likely to just "Foreclose" the debts and take a "business loss" like the 1930's...so you could loose your house/ car etc. just because you have no where to make a payment to for a few months!)
IOW your debt ain't just going to go away....
Pay off what you can, when you can.
Even if you immediate creditors colapsed, they themselves would go into recievership, and the debt would be inherited by a diffrent coparartion...
that corp. will try to get the debt out of you. (they will be more likely to just "Foreclose" the debts and take a "business loss" like the 1930's...so you could loose your house/ car etc. just because you have no where to make a payment to for a few months!)
IOW your debt ain't just going to go away....
Pay off what you can, when you can.
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watchv=Ai4te4daLZs&feature=related[/url] "My soul longs for the candle and the spices. If only you would pour me a cup of wine for Havdalah...My heart yearning, I shall lift up my eyes to g-d, who provides for my needs day and night."
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by JayHMorrison » Wed 21 Jul 2004, 16:50:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Virginian', 'M')artin,
Even if you immediate creditors colapsed, they themselves would go into recievership, and the debt would be inherited by a diffrent coparartion...
that corp. will try to get the debt out of you. (they will be more likely to just "Foreclose" the debts and take a "business loss" like the 1930's...so you could loose your house/ car etc. just because you have no where to make a payment to for a few months!)
IOW your debt ain't just going to go away....
Pay off what you can, when you can.
Even if you immediate creditors colapsed, they themselves would go into recievership, and the debt would be inherited by a diffrent coparartion...
that corp. will try to get the debt out of you. (they will be more likely to just "Foreclose" the debts and take a "business loss" like the 1930's...so you could loose your house/ car etc. just because you have no where to make a payment to for a few months!)
IOW your debt ain't just going to go away....
Pay off what you can, when you can.
That is not exactly true. When a bad debt is sold, it is sold for 5 cents on the dollar or less (or whatever currency you have). The older the unpaid debt, the less it is worth. You can typically offer these 2nd and 3rd owners 20% of the original face value of the debt and they will take it, because it is still a huge profit for them.
The only concern is your credit report, and that can be disputed directly with the credit bureaus. It is fairly easy to get those things deleted within a few months.
Also, if it is unsecured credit card debt, they have nothing to forclose on. They must get a judgement, then chase you (find where you work, your bank accounts, etc). Most creditors will not even bother unless it is a serious amount of money (over $1,000).
In the event of a serious economic crisis (post peak oil) where everything is falling apart, just max out your credit cards while you still can. It will take six months before it is sent to a collection agency. It will take one year before you are sued. I doubt anyone will be chasing you for the money if things are really getting bad.
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by Aaron » Wed 21 Jul 2004, 16:57:00
This thread is starting to sound like project Mayhem.
If the economy is collapsing, maximize your bad debt eh? lol
It seems easy to get credit today... low interest rates, record economic growth around the globe. Try getting credit when oil is $100 per barrel without security.
If the economy is collapsing, maximize your bad debt eh? lol
It seems easy to get credit today... low interest rates, record economic growth around the globe. Try getting credit when oil is $100 per barrel without security.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.
Hazel Henderson
Hazel Henderson
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by azreal60 » Wed 21 Jul 2004, 20:39:38
Although this thread really is not about how to clear debt, Jay you mentioned that is fairly easy to clear your credit report? Mind telling me how? I mean, seriously, that is a major part of the problem i have. I always have enough money, but credit cards that i don t have enough money to pay down. So by all means, share. :D
Azreal60
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by JayHMorrison » Wed 21 Jul 2004, 23:54:46
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('azreal60', 'A')lthough this thread really is not about how to clear debt, Jay you mentioned that is fairly easy to clear your credit report? Mind telling me how? I mean, seriously, that is a major part of the problem i have. I always have enough money, but credit cards that i don t have enough money to pay down. So by all means, share. :D
What are the negatives on your credit reports? Late payments? Charged off credit card debt? Collection agencies reporting negatives?
The first step is to order copies of your credit reports from Trans Union, Experian and Equifax. For everything negative, just dispute it. You can either dispute the entire account (tradeline) or the negative part of that account (a late payment).
Even if it is accurate and you are guilty, you can still dispute it. Even if they respond that they verify it as it is reported, dispute it again. Keep disputing it every month with all 3 credit bureaus. Odds are it will get deleted after a few tries.
You can also contract the creditor directly and ask for the change to be made. Deny Deny Deny. Make them prove it.
You can also file lawsuit in small claims court. THAT is the most direct way to get this taken care of. I have done this three times for several old issues that were affecting my credit. I caught them on minor violations of the Fair Credit Report Act and Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. I got out of court settlements in all three cases. They agreed to delete the negative info AND they paid me $1,500 (2 cases) and $1,000 (1 case).
That was fun. Making collection agencies pay me for something that I was actually guilty of on the bad debt. They paid me because I was representing myself Pro Se in court, but they had to pay lawyers thousands of dollars to fight me. It was cheaper to just pay me off.
That is guerilla credit repair.
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by The_Virginian » Thu 22 Jul 2004, 08:52:10
Jay,
When I mentioned a house or car I obviosly refered to secured credit.
You seem to have a lot more experiance than me in fighting card co.'s and "debt vodoo." Thanks for the info on the credit card/unsecured debts and small calims courts. Never know when that might come in handy.
Of course given a major economic crisis, I don't know if the rules will change... (my bet is they will)
When I mentioned a house or car I obviosly refered to secured credit.
You seem to have a lot more experiance than me in fighting card co.'s and "debt vodoo." Thanks for the info on the credit card/unsecured debts and small calims courts. Never know when that might come in handy.
Of course given a major economic crisis, I don't know if the rules will change... (my bet is they will)
[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watchv=Ai4te4daLZs&feature=related[/url] "My soul longs for the candle and the spices. If only you would pour me a cup of wine for Havdalah...My heart yearning, I shall lift up my eyes to g-d, who provides for my needs day and night."
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Re: should we pay off debts?
by KingM » Tue 09 Nov 2010, 20:57:18
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Guest', 'i') have around £4000 of debts (about $7000 I guess) not including my mortgage
since i feel peak oil will 'arrive' early next year I'm not sure whether I should try and pay them off or save the money
Martin
since i feel peak oil will 'arrive' early next year I'm not sure whether I should try and pay them off or save the money
Martin
Is Martin still around? Did he pay off his debts or did he keep waiting for the End of the World to bail him out up until the point where they took his car? Looking through some of these threads from 6 1/2 years ago is a good reminder that nobody can see the future. The world may look radically different a year from now or it may keep plugging on until long after those of us on this forum are dead.
It's best to have multiple plans to plan for multiple possible futures.
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