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THE Beer Thread (merged)

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 21 May 2009, 15:26:03

Good afternoon Jason. I see you are feeling fine this morning. Perhaps you'd like to go out for a beer later?

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$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Munqi', ' ')i see no reason why beer shouldnt be taxed at all.


No one has ever suggested it shouldn't be taxed at all. Beer is already heavily taxed in the US. The problem here is that dems are going to tax beer even more heavily in spite of Obama pledging he wouldn't raise taxes.

I object to Obama saying he wouldn't raise taxes on working folks when he was campaigning, and then raisng taxes on beer and other commodities consumed by working folks once he is elected.

I also object to the stupidity of the dems raising taxes during a recession.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 21 May 2009, 15:45:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I') also object to the stupidity of the dems raising taxes during a recession.


You don't answer the question. If peak oil is about to change everything unrecognizably, how is any minor tax policy consideration enacted today of any significance.

The current thinking is that Peak Oil's economic consequences will trounce any mere political/fiscal management scheme. Or don't you think that Peak oil is any sort of real threat?

Why do you avoid the question?

Look, Economist Jeff Rubin, a well-known MSM commentator with 20 years at CIBC has just quit his job and written a peak oil book, Why Your World Is About to Get a Whole Lot Smaller

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')conomist Jeff Rubin to embark on international book tour

TORONTO, March 27 /CNW/ - Today Jeff Rubin, chief economist of CIBC World
Markets, announced his resignation from CIBC after more than 20 years of
service to focus on his new book. Random House Canada, along with Random House
in the US and Virgin Books in the UK, will publish Why Your World Is About to
Get a Whole Lot Smaller, in May. The book explores the ways in which oil
scarcity will lead to the end of globalization.
Said Jeff Rubin: "Though the book grew out of my experience as an
economist on Bay Street, this is not a book about financial markets. It's a
book about the way the world is about to change. We've all got our eyes right
now on the global financial meltdown, but I believe that oil scarcity will
change the global economy even more profoundly and in the process change all
of our lives - from where we work to where we live to what we eat. I believe
it's important to deliver this book's message in as many places and to as many
people as possible, and I'm looking forward to working closely over the next
few months with Random House in Canada, the US and the UK and with my other
international publishers to spread the word."


Why in the hell is tax policy important when there is a growing mainstream recognition that oil scarcity is about to completely upturn the global economy?

Or, don't you think Peak Oil is much of an economic consideration compared to tax policy?
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 21 May 2009, 15:55:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '.')... Peak Oil is much of an economic consideration compared to tax policy?


You missed this link

http://peakoil.com/open/dems-want-to-raise-taxes-on-beer-t53302-15.html#p904683 :roll:
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 21 May 2009, 16:11:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '.')... Peak Oil is much of an economic consideration compared to tax policy?


You missed this link

http://peakoil.com/open/dems-want-to-raise-taxes-on-beer-t53302-15.html#p904683 :roll:


I didn't miss anything. You seem to reduce the problem of forecasted severe energy shortages to the level of tax policy judgements and their consequences. Only an energy Cornucopian could make such an argument.

A true Peak Oiler would argue that geological constraints impose limits on human growth. Even maintaining the current economic system is out of the question in the face of dire energy scarcities. In addition, he would say that a mass die-off looks like a distinct possibility. Tax policy could never hope to avert such basic geological limitations, he would insist.

But you seem to suggest that proper tax policy could get the current economic system working again properly - if only Obama would make the right calls. If you think that, you must not regard the severe economic ramifications of peak oil to much of a problem at all. Cornucopian, no?
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 21 May 2009, 16:41:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'y')ou must not regard the severe economic ramifications of peak oil to much of a problem at all.


As I posted twice earlier in response to your same strawman argument, I regard the severe economic ramifications of peak oil as a very serious problem.

Next strawman arguement, please. :roll:
Last edited by Plantagenet on Thu 21 May 2009, 17:15:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 21 May 2009, 17:14:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'y')ou must not regard the severe economic ramifications of peak oil to much of a problem at all.


And you must be a total dweeb to make things up and try to attribute them to me.

IMHO, Peak Oil is the most important crisis facing the US and the world.

Whats your view on the subject? Are you a Cornucopian? :P


No, I think it's pretty f****ing serious and recognition of it is growing more and more mainstream all the time. It's pretty clear that energy conservation is going to be an unavoidable reality. There will be a great scramble for innovation as well. Peak Oil most likely means resource wars and major lifestyle changes. Governmental fiscal policies worldwide will be forced to adapt to the new reality.

Population and consumptions patterns are totally unsustainable. That said, I think that science and technology is given short shrift on this board, so in the past I have argued against the dead-certain, Luddite, doomer-mindset. But, really, I think the awareness of the immensity of the peak oil problem has elicited a Cheney-esque response to forecasted creeping oil shortages -- which has been for the US to invade the last best cheap oil provinces left on the planet. This action has been accompanied by a whole lot of propaganda and a whole lot of omissions of important information in the media.

Al-Quaeda exists and is a real threat but the basic instinct driving the War on Terror derives form the terrible reality of forecasted global energy shortages and the competition that must eventually result from them. Indeed, had it not been for the energy bonanza in the Middle East, there would have been none of the 20th century's turbulence and US involvement in that region.

Peak Oil is an energy security emergency for America. The recent energy-acquisition plans (invasion) in anticipation of eventual peak is hiding behind the bogey-man of a terrorist network. Cheney was making speeches mentioning forecasted oil scarcity before the year 2000.

If Peak Oil is real, it is ridiculous that US intelligence agencies are unaware of it. When the US peaked in '72, there were two subsequent oil emergencies in America. It affected everything. Documents have been released that the CIA had been calculating Soviet reserves and their forcasted production potential way back in the 70's - for strategic purposes. The US employed oil and oil infrastructure as a weapon against the Nazis way back in the 40's. So the facts of peak oil would have been clear to the CIA long before was clear to anyone posting here.

Tax revenues and tax law is dependent on wealth at large. And all wealth is ultimately derived because primary energy sources have been cheap to exploit. That's all going to change. Any minor tax policy judgment at present is simply not significant at all compared with what is coming down the pike.

Anyone who argues that tax policy judgments are important right now must not believe that peak oil is much of a problem at all. You appear to say, if only we apply a few commonsense tax policies in place, everything will work out.

Sounds like a Cornucopian to me.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 21 May 2009, 17:23:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')If Peak Oil is real, it is ridiculous that US intelligence agencies are unaware of it.


1. Let me assure you that peak oil is real. If you doubt it, there are plenty of resources here for you to learn about it. :roll:

2. Your faith in the abilities of the intelligence agencies may give some comfort, I guess, but they actually have a pretty dismal record and their scientific staffing and capabilities are quite limited.

AND, even if the intelligence agencies tell the politicians something, the politicians are quite capable of ignoring it and lying about it. Look at Nancy Pelosi's obvious lies, for crissakes.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 21 May 2009, 18:22:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')If Peak Oil is real, it is ridiculous that US intelligence agencies are unaware of it.


1. Let me assure you that peak oil is real. If you doubt it, there are plenty of resources here for you to learn about it. :roll:


Well, then, if you think peak oil is real and imminent, tax policy isn't going to change anything. It's completely irrelevant. It amounts to a re-arrangement of deck chairs on the Titanic.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '2'). Your faith in the abilities of the intelligence agencies may give some comfort, I guess, but they actually have a pretty dismal record and their scientific staffing and capabilities are quite limited.

AND, even if the intelligence agencies tell the politicians something, the politicians are quite capable of ignoring it and lying about it. Look at Nancy Pelosi's obvious lies, for crissakes.


Oh sure! Only ODAC and the members of PeakOil.com could possibly have any clue about the onset of peak and EOTWAWKI. American oil interests, the NSA and CIA would have no clue about the strategic importance of petroleum reserves! Right!

Oil has been of immense strategic importance since Winston Churchill pushed for an completely oil-powered navy back in the early 20th century. Now, Jeff Rubin, CIBC economist and mainstream media figure, is publishing a book about Peak Oil, why it will change absolutely everything.

Current adjustments to tax policy, whatever legislators chooses to do, will be like pissing in the wind compared to the realities of peak oil. It just isn't significant. To anyone accepting the peak oil argument, tax policy is completely irrelevant subject to dramatic changes in the relatively near-future.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 21 May 2009, 18:34:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')If Peak Oil is real, it is ridiculous that US intelligence agencies are unaware of it.


1. Let me assure you that peak oil is real. If you doubt it, there are plenty of resources here for you to learn about it. :roll:


Well, then, if you think peak oil is real and imminent, tax policy isn't going to change anything. It's completely irrelevant.


Again, I assure you---Peak Oil is real.

It is precisely because peak oil is real that science and geopolitics and tax policies and US elections and the environment and the politics of different countries are important. In fact, thats why many people come to peakoil.com to chat about these various subjects.

You think there is nothing to be done but to give up, and I think that peak-oil aware people in US should make efforts to have the US change its policies to address and mitigate the peak oil problem.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 21 May 2009, 18:46:26

I'd just as soon have a nice cool beer with my peak oil doomerism.

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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 21 May 2009, 18:57:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')If Peak Oil is real, it is ridiculous that US intelligence agencies are unaware of it.


1. Let me assure you that peak oil is real. If you doubt it, there are plenty of resources here for you to learn about it. :roll:


Well, then, if you think peak oil is real and imminent, tax policy isn't going to change anything. It's completely irrelevant.


Again, I assure you---Peak Oil is real.


I'm saying the same damn thing, moron! And Jeff Rubin, an economist with CIBC is saying the same thing too in a new book he has written alerting everyone to this alarming advent. He forecasts a 50% reduction in the numbers of cars driving on the nation's highways within a decade or so.

Peak Oil is real. Everything fiscal-related will be forced to undergo dramatic changes in response to it. Therefore, any current tax policy is completely insignificant compared to the awesome consequence of that emergent reality. My point is that only a Cornucopian would suggest that tax policy is a primary concern superceding the effects peak oil will have on economics.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Thu 21 May 2009, 20:08:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Peak Oil is real. Everything fiscal-related will be forced to undergo dramatic changes in response to it.


I'm glad we agree that peak oil is real.

The changes it is bringing will not just be fiscal....every social and cultural and political aspect of our society will change in response to peak oil. It makes me wonder, you moronic apeman, why you've spent so much time on the 9/11 conspiracy when imminent peak oil makes it all irrelevant?

Could it be that you are a cornucopian? :roll:
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 21 May 2009, 22:43:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Peak Oil is real. Everything fiscal-related will be forced to undergo dramatic changes in response to it.


I'm glad we agree that peak oil is real.

The changes it is bringing will not just be fiscal....every social and cultural and political aspect of our society will change in response to peak oil. It makes me wonder, you moronic apeman, why you've spent so much time on the 9/11 conspiracy when imminent peak oil makes it all irrelevant?


Because I consider 911 to have been a kick-off event in the peak oil resource wars.
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Re: Dems want to raise taxes on Beer

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 22 May 2009, 00:04:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I') consider 911 to have been a kick-off event in the peak oil resource wars.


One of Al Qaida's main tenets was that the Saudis and others were selling their oil too cheap. However, I sincerely doubt that Osama bin Laden or anyone else in Al Qaida had the slightest understanding of peak oil.

An alternative interpretation would be one of the reasons that Al Qaida attacked on 9/11 was to protest the drinking of beer, women driving, US troops being in Saudi, etc. etc. since all those things are evidently forbidden under strict readings of Islamic law.

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From beer-fueled brainstorm to life's work of helping others

Unread postby Graeme » Fri 13 Aug 2010, 05:45:12

From beer-fueled brainstorm to life's work of helping others

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')agnus MacFarlane-Barrow was enjoying a pint at his local pub in the Scottish Highlands when he got an idea that would change his life -- and the lives of thousands of others.

It was 1992, and MacFarlane-Barrow and his brother Fergus had just seen a news report about refugee camps in Bosnia. The images of people suffering in the war-torn country shocked the two salmon farmers, who'd visited there as teenagers and remembered the warmth of the Bosnian people.

"We began saying 'Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could just do one small thing to help?' " MacFarlane-Barrow says.

After talking it over, the two men took a week off work and collected food, clothing, medicine and blankets. They loaded everything into an old Land Rover, drove to Bosnia to deliver it and returned to Scotland.

"I came back here thinking that I did my one good deed and it would be back to work, but it [didn't work] out like that, " he says.

When they arrived home, the brothers found an avalanche of goods that people had continued to donate while they were away.

"I was touched by the overwhelming generosity of others," MacFarlane-Barrow remembers. "I saw all of those donations in our family home and thought, 'Wow, people really are good,' and it inspired me to be good too."

After much thought and prayer, Magnus MacFarlane-Barrow quit his job, sold his home and dedicated himself to helping people in need.

He returned to Bosnia with aid 22 more times during the Bosnian War, and over the next 18 years his work expanded and evolved. Today, his program -- Mary's Meals, named after the Virgin Mary -- provides free daily meals to more than 400,000 children around the world.


cnn
Last edited by Ferretlover on Sat 06 Aug 2011, 19:20:34, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged thread.
Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
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Re: From beer-fueled brainstorm to life's work of helping ot

Unread postby pup55 » Fri 13 Aug 2010, 07:48:16

Touching, isn't it?

What would be the ramifications if I/you walked off of your job today, right now, and decided to do something that would help people....

If I did it the people around me would have me committed.
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Re: From beer-fueled brainstorm to life's work of helping ot

Unread postby eastbay » Fri 13 Aug 2010, 10:43:41

Sunday a friend of mine is being ordained as a Buddhist monk. He's 53. He's been planning it for many years. Sold everything. And I mean everything. Quit work. Gave his home, property, clothes, all of it away to close family and charity and he will live in poverty at a small local temple. His life is now dedicated strictly to helping others.

He has adult children and had to leave his wife of 30+ years to make it happen.
Got Dharma?

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Re: From beer-fueled brainstorm to life's work of helping ot

Unread postby pup55 » Fri 13 Aug 2010, 11:07:08

Pretty impressive. Trying to get some enlightenment at middle age. I think there is a trend of people going into the priesthood late in life too...
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Re: From beer-fueled brainstorm to life's work of helping ot

Unread postby Vogelzang » Mon 30 Aug 2010, 18:40:35

He was drunk. What do you expect? Deleted. Stop this now.
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