[paimei01]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sys1', '
')By giving us free time instead of perpetual gathering and hunting, neolithic put us on the technological way, since we are too intelligent to contemplate nature without playing with it. Some could call that Pandora's box or promethean dream, but it's our destiny.

[rangerone314]

Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '
')We aren't in overshoot wrt population, just wrt SUVs and McMansions.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sys1', 'b')ut no matter how respectuous to nature we can be, we as a whole are going to die.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sys1', 'b')ut no matter how respectuous to nature we can be, we as a whole are going to die.

[mos6507]

Oil Drum just had an article which makes the point I made earlier about standard of living after phantom carrying capacity evaporates:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Should we choose to maintain our current population level of 302 million people, our sustainable average living standard (per capita consumption level) would be approximately 3.2% of its current level--essentially that of Cambodia and North Korea today.

If we choose instead ot maintain our current average material living standard, America could support a sustainable population level of only 9.7 million people.

...by choosing to reduce our population levels and living standards equally, by approximately 82% each, we could attain a sustainable population of approximately 54 million people with an average material living standard equivalent to Kazakhstan and Cuba today.

[yesplease]

I don't think it'll be an eco-chic lifestyle, just what's financially viable if oil goes up high again. China doesn't have more small EVs than any other country because they all want to help the environment, it's just because it's the best option given the circumstances. The same will apply other other countries wrt personal transportation sooner or later, because oil won't be around forever.

As for TOD piece, it isn't exactly rigorous. For one, assuming we won't change any of what we do today and need to base the population of off that is quite lemmingish, and more or less impossible since the thing about people is that they always change. If we were to apply it to a time when we used way more FFs than we do today, we could make the same argument and come up with a population that's a tenth of what's mention in the thread, yet somehow, here we are, with renewables expanding. Linking GDP to consumption in a direct way is also kinda weird, since renewable electricity alone is about $400 billion/year. Granted, current ag practices aren't exactly sustainable, but even adjusting for the green revolution and all the associated FF use, there's still another $500 billion or so via sustainable ag. We've only looked at two industries, and already we're well above the $500 billion/year cap, which doesn't bode well for it. Of course, lack of change also sinks that ship, but that's more or less a given.

We should stand back and look at stuff analytically, not just open our noggins and shovel it in.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '
')As for TOD piece, it isn't exactly rigorous.

[yesplease]

Not just reading it, but applying the premise to specific points in the past in order to see if it holds water. It doesn't appear to...

[Plantagenet]

Sustainable energy (without all the hot air)

Sustainable energy without all the hot air

Pdf of recent notable book from Cambridge University

-----------

30 April 2009 - Guardian: Power to the people - "How did a Cambridge physics professor come to write this year's must-read book about tackling our future energy needs?"
16 April 2009 - centre for journalism 'This book is uses language accessible to the general reader, tackles an extremely complex area of policy with simple clarity, and cuts through the prevailing rhetoric and ignorance about these matters. What more could you want?'
14 April 2009 FT.com
9 April 2009 Sustainable Energy Without the Hot Air: the Freakonomics of conservation, climate and energy by Cory Doctorow, boingboing - "may be the best technical book about the environment that I've ever read" [local copy of review]

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'N')ot just reading it, but applying the premise to specific points in the past in order to see if it holds water. It doesn't appear to...

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'N')ot just reading it, but applying the premise to specific points in the past in order to see if it holds water. It doesn't appear to...

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'N')ot just reading it, but applying the premise to specific points in the past in order to see if it holds water. It doesn't appear to...

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ' ')withouthotair.com is the best I've seen so far, check it out and feel free to point out any problems.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')It doesn't seem to jive with your do-everything-but-touch-population rhetoric.

....another little gem that is hardly as optimistic as you tend to be:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')Today the area of Britain per person is 4000m2, so even if we reverted to the lifestyle of the Middle Ages and completely reforested the country, we could no longer live sustainably here. Our population density is far too high.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ' ')withouthotair.com is the best I've seen so far, check it out and feel free to point out any problems.