[Hermes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'I') see the post above my last one is a neo-luddite.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hermes', '
')there will be no returning to this level of technology until geological processes bring fossil fuels and metal ores back up to the surface again in a million or so years.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')The salvage economy is something that will probably last far enough in the future that theorizing beyond it is hardly worth it.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')The main limiter to that technology is fuel. The ancients devastated their forests to produce metal objects, and they had a lot more forest to start with than we have.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')
I think we'll still have some coal leftover for that, not that I'm thrilled about using it after the climate will have been so devastated by GW, but it beats deforestation.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')In the past, people could just pick coal off the surface of the ground.

[Rod_Cloutier]

None of the 'Salvage economy' or going back to the stone age would be necessary if we go into space for the resources we need to continue civilized society.

The skeptics will be proved wrong, stellar space resources are vast beyond imagination, space mining and resource extraction is the long term key to mankind's future and survival.

Our own solar system has multiple planets, moons, asteroids and other bodies to mine besides the Earth. The sun emits limitless solar energy, essentially forever in human terms. Also, our solar system is only one star system in the galaxy; a galaxy with an estimated 400 billion other stars. Multiply that figure by 10-100 million galaxies, then calculate the real amount of resources available in space in terms of metal, solar energies from other stars, nuclear fuels, the list goes on and on.

We need to get off our little rock and narrowminded ways of thinking and get out there!

[Tyler_JC]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Repent', 'N')one of the 'Salvage economy' or going back to the stone age would be necessary if we go into space for the resources we need to continue civilized society.

The skeptics will be proved wrong, stellar space resources are vast beyond imagination, space mining and resource extraction is the long term key to mankind's future and survival.

Our own solar system has multiple planets, moons, asteroids and other bodies to mine besides the Earth. The sun emits limitless solar energy, essentially forever in human terms. Also, our solar system is only one star system in the galaxy; a galaxy with an estimated 400 billion other stars. Multiply that figure by 10-100 million galaxies, then calculate the real amount of resources available in space in terms of metal, solar energies from other stars, nuclear fuels, the list goes on and on.

We need to get off our little rock and narrowminded ways of thinking and get out there!

[mos6507]

If we stay on earth, the problems with importing mined material to earth in great quantities is clear. For instance, if we parked Titan next to earth and transferred all the methan over, we are basically going to terraform Earth into Venus in short order if we intend to burn all those hydrocarbons. If we imported the equivalent mass of the earth in minerals from other planets to earth we would be added so much mass to the earth that it would totally screw it up. So only limited mining (for things like He3, platinum, indium, etc...) makes any sense. No matter how you slice it, you can not have infinite growth in a finite system. The earth is our current limit, the universe is the ultimate limit (see Asimov's The Last Question). Everyone must ask themselves, is growth the be all end all of existence? My answer to that is no. Even if we had Star Trek technology, we really would want to exercise some restraint in how extensively we convert the universe to human biomass. The danger of geometric growth will work at all scales if you let it. To me population size is kind of like making a hard drive backup. It's a hedge against disasters, an insurance policy. But few people make a billion hard drive backups. At some point enough is enough. We're covered.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hermes', 'W')ow. An attack on my character rather than the content of my post. Congratulations.[

[Hermes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')Huh? I don't know jack about your character, I was talking about the content of your post.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hermes', '
')Well now that you CLAIM that your statements about "backwards ... violent ... superstition worshippers" was ONLY about "contemporary American & Arab fundamentalists" (right...) then of course you weren't dishonoring any indigenous peoples, and what I said is wrong... If indeed you were only guiding those statements towards the people you said you were.

[Hermes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')This is all tangential bullsh*t.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hermes', '
')Um, no. A suggestion being really hard doesn't mean it's useless.

[Hermes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')It is basically intellectual masturbation right now.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'W')e're talking about a universal plan that everyone collectively can pursue without exhausting the world's resources.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'S')ure there is

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '
') technically a high standard of living for even 10 billion people is a possibility.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '
')I think 10 billion is probably overshoot even if we all live as carefully as possible and adhere to permaculture principles, but I agree it's an open question.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'T')he system has too much control of everything.