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Will designer brains divide humanity?

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Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 14 May 2009, 08:54:36

New Scientist

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('New Scientist', 'W')E ARE on the brink of technological breakthroughs that could augment our mental powers beyond recognition. It will soon be possible to boost human brainpower with electronic "plug-ins" or even by genetic enhancement. What will this mean for the future of humanity?

This was the theme of a recent Neuroscience in Context meeting in Berlin, Germany, where anthropologists, technologists, neurologists, archaeologists and philosophers met to consider the implications of this next stage of human brain development. Would it widen the gulf between the world's haves and have-nots - and perhaps even lead to a distinct and dominant species with unmatchable powers of intellect?


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he next stage of brainpower enhancement could be technological - through genetic engineering or brain prostheses. Because the gene variants pivotal to intellectual brilliance have yet to be discovered, boosting brainpower by altering genes may still be some way off, or even impossible. Prostheses are much closer, especially as the technology for wiring brains into computers is already being tested (see "Dawn of the cyborgs"). Indeed, futurist and inventor Ray Kurzweil believes the time when humans merge with machines will arrive as early as 2045 (New Scientist, 9 May, p 26).

It won't be long before "clip-on" computer aids become available for everybody, says Andy Clark, a pro-enhancement philosopher at the University of Edinburgh in the UK. These could be anything from memory aids to the ability to "search" for information stored in your brain. "We'll get a flowering of brain augmentations, some seeping through from the disabled community," he says. "I see them becoming fashion items, a bit like choosing clothing." Clark says that even today, devices such as head-up displays on spectacles or simply being adept at using computer programs like Photoshop come close to being physical extensions of people's minds.


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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 14 May 2009, 09:31:23

You should check out the FAQ at transhumanism.org. It looks like they changed their name to "Humanity Plus" now.

http://transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/faq/

This movement is pretty old. It was huge in the 1930s when "Eugenics" was all the rave. The idea was to selectively improve the human race through active management. Hitler's methods were a bit more brutal, but it was pretty pervasive in the USA in the 1930s too. There were forced sterilizations in the USA of retarded and handicapped folks, as well as relatives of criminals. There is a museum dedicated to the atrocities of America's forced sterilization program(s) in North Carolina, for chrissakes.

After WW-2 when Eugenics fell out of fashion for obvious reasons (pics of skeleton-like holocaust survivors and ovens meant for people aren't too appealing), the movement simply changed form, but it was still there. Today, you can find it located around things like the "Humanity Plus" movement, which talks about actively improving the human race through various forms of modification.

It's interesting that the Transhumanist website specifically has a section that discusses Eugenics. They do not completely reject the idea, stating that logically we would want to prevent genetic imperfections from being passed on to future generations. When considering all the implications of what this could mean, it's a bit ominous.

http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/WTA/faq21/66/

They say:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ugenics in the narrow sense refers to the pre-WWII movement in Europe and the United States to involuntarily sterilize the “genetically unfit” and encourage breeding of the genetically advantaged. These ideas are entirely contrary to the tolerant humanistic and scientific tenets of transhumanism.


But then they go on to say this, which is contradictory:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he use of genetic medicine or embryonic screening to increase the probability of a healthy, happy, and multiply talented child is a responsible and justifiable application of parental reproductive freedom.

Beyond this, one can argue that parents have a moral responsibility to make use of these methods, assuming they are safe and effective. Just as it would be wrong for parents to fail in their duty to procure the best available medical care for their sick child, it would be wrong not to take reasonable precautions to ensure that a child-to-be will be as healthy as possible.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 14 May 2009, 10:10:36

Transhumanism is an interesting concept, itself born of the one flaw inherent in human species.

Who gets to decide what is a "genetic" defect? The same unethical morons who decide routinely that distinct personality traits are "syndromes" that need to be countered with drugs (that of course make money for Pharma) so they are brought into some "norm".

Most of the flaws humanity has is as a result of its separation from nature, its decision (I was going to say 'self-serving decision' but species suicide is not really self-serving) that it is better than nature and has "dominion".

The only things separating man from other animals are not emotions and intelligence, because animals have those by degree and man got them from being in the animal kingdom. A soul cannot be proven to exist in humans, and disproven to exist in animals. The only thing separating man is the arrogance that he is better.

I find it amusing that transhumans think that man will manage his own evolution better than man has managed nature. Seems like nature has done pretty well so far on its own evolving itself (the main exception being humans).

If transhumans want to change human genetics and human brains for the better, maybe they should tinker with getting rid of the gene that makes humans WANT to do stuff like tinker with human genetics, and tinker with the gene that makes humans think they are better than animals (probably the same gene)
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 14 May 2009, 10:11:44

Image
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 14 May 2009, 10:21:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I') find it amusing that transhumans think that man will manage his own evolution better than man has managed nature. Seems like nature has done pretty well so far on its own evolving itself (the main exception being humans).


Exactly.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby Carlhole » Thu 14 May 2009, 10:29:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jotapay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I') find it amusing that transhumans think that man will manage his own evolution better than man has managed nature. Seems like nature has done pretty well so far on its own evolving itself (the main exception being humans).


Exactly.


So whose going to tell all the chimps to leave that science alone?

Fact Of Life: Chimps fool around with stuff. Deal with it.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 14 May 2009, 10:46:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o whose going to tell all the chimps to leave that science alone?

Fact Of Life: Chimps fool around with stuff. Deal with it.


Primates also toss coconuts and fling poop. We toss missiles and fling molotovs.

I'm not going to be dealing with it.

Mother Nature, the Universe, Gaia, whatever. A major biotch slap is coming for the human race.

A little "hiccup" like Yellowstone erupting would be all that is needed to jack-slap humanity back to year 0.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby Windmills » Thu 14 May 2009, 10:49:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227083.700-will-designer-brains-divide-humanity.html?full=true&print=true]New Scientist[/url]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('New Scientist', 'T')his was the theme of a recent Neuroscience in Context meeting in Berlin, Germany, where anthropologists, technologists, neurologists, archaeologists and philosophers met to consider the implications of this next stage of human brain development.



The theme? A bunch of guys getting together to fantasize. It sounds like a circle jerk to me.

I think this is and always will be a non-issue. It's not going to happen. Fire it in the bin with fusion, FTL drives, and colonization of other planets. In a resource-depleting world, this type of research will be on the back burner until the flame goes out.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby outcast » Thu 14 May 2009, 11:05:56

Personally I look forward to this development. I'm not sure what certain conspiracy nuts think is so bad about this.....
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby Jotapay » Thu 14 May 2009, 11:07:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', 'P')ersonally I look forward to this development. I'm not sure what certain conspiracy nuts think is so bad about this.....


Who said anything about conspiracies? Are you busy building up that straw man so you can expertly tear him down?
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby Windmills » Thu 14 May 2009, 11:15:33

I wasn't saying it's good or bad, or that there was a conspiracy here. I'm just wondering how much money there will be for toy research in the future when we'll be starving for capital to sustain necessary systems. The current economic analog as a dress rehearsal makes the situation for the future look quite bleak. My guess is "not much," for funding, so I don't think all the futuramaphiles will have any of their favorite dreams come true.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby ian807 » Thu 14 May 2009, 11:46:09

Let's cut to the chase here.

Yes, we will speciate pretty soon via different genetic modifications. These will be permanent and heritable. Good investment for the kids.

Yes, this will, at first, be defined by monetary status since rich people will purchase genetic mods for their children and enhancements for themselves.

Yes, laws will be passed in some countries banning genetic modification, forcing the wealthy to go where genetic modification isn't banned. In no case, will the laws be effective.

Yes, the catholic church will whine about it, as will most monotheists worldwide.

After two generations of genetic modification and AI hybridization, the remaining monotheists will cease to matter much to the majority of humanity.

Where we go from there is anyone's guess. Hook up a few billion geniuses to the internet using direct neural I/O and I doubt we even have a name for the emergent property that results. "Society" and "Culture" won't quite cut it.

Unmodified humans will probably still be around though. Chimps and Bonobos are, eh?
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 14 May 2009, 11:59:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o whose going to tell all the chimps to leave that science alone?

Fact Of Life: Chimps fool around with stuff. Deal with it.


Primates also toss coconuts and fling poop. We toss missiles and fling molotovs.

I'm not going to be dealing with it.

Mother Nature, the Universe, Gaia, whatever. A major biotch slap is coming for the human race.

A little "hiccup" like Yellowstone erupting would be all that is needed to jack-slap humanity back to year 0.


Just like the great flood. :cry:
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 14 May 2009, 12:08:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'L')et's cut to the chase here.

Yes, we will speciate pretty soon via different genetic modifications. These will be permanent and heritable. Good investment for the kids.

Yes, this will, at first, be defined by monetary status since rich people will purchase genetic mods for their children and enhancements for themselves.

Yes, laws will be passed in some countries banning genetic modification, forcing the wealthy to go where genetic modification isn't banned. In no case, will the laws be effective.

Yes, the catholic church will whine about it, as will most monotheists worldwide.

After two generations of genetic modification and AI hybridization, the remaining monotheists will cease to matter much to the majority of humanity.

Where we go from there is anyone's guess. Hook up a few billion geniuses to the internet using direct neural I/O and I doubt we even have a name for the emergent property that results. "Society" and "Culture" won't quite cut it.

Unmodified humans will probably still be around though. Chimps and Bonobos are, eh?


Just what Hitler was working on......... :lol:
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby rangerone314 » Thu 14 May 2009, 13:22:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'L')et's cut to the chase here.

Yes, we will speciate pretty soon via different genetic modifications. These will be permanent and heritable. Good investment for the kids.

Yes, this will, at first, be defined by monetary status since rich people will purchase genetic mods for their children and enhancements for themselves.

Yes, laws will be passed in some countries banning genetic modification, forcing the wealthy to go where genetic modification isn't banned. In no case, will the laws be effective.

Genetic modification is only reasonable as a counterbalance to the natural weeding out process that human societies bypass by allow defects to survive and be passed down, not in some misguided attempt to "improve" the breed. Witness the more primitive modification that results from dogs selectively bred... less hardy than mutts.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', '
')Yes, the catholic church will whine about it, as will most monotheists worldwide.

After two generations of genetic modification and AI hybridization, the remaining monotheists will cease to matter much to the majority of humanity.


I dunno, monotheists do whine a lot but they also tend to breed a lot. Also possible that a shared collective mind would lead to the SPREAD of monotheism rather than the demise.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', '
')Where we go from there is anyone's guess. Hook up a few billion geniuses to the internet using direct neural I/O and I doubt we even have a name for the emergent property that results. "Society" and "Culture" won't quite cut it.

The Borg?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', '
')Unmodified humans will probably still be around though. Chimps and Bonobos are, eh?

Unless unmodified humans do something like free range and become pests by eating apples out of the orchards.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby jasonraymondson » Thu 14 May 2009, 13:34:18

I don't see what the big deal is. The strong survive, the weak don't.

I do though have a problem with performing doing surgery on me, or putting shit in my brain.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby ian807 » Thu 14 May 2009, 14:46:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')Unless unmodified humans do something like free range and become pests by eating apples out of the orchards.


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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby ian807 » Thu 14 May 2009, 14:49:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')Just what Hitler was working on......... :lol:


Weak argument. Hitler was a delusional wack-job racist who worked from fantasy, not science. This is about specific traits that can be applied to anyone with enough money to pay for them, making money the differentiating factor.
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Re: Will designer brains divide humanity?

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 14 May 2009, 15:12:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')Just what Hitler was working on......... :lol:


Weak argument. Hitler was a delusional wack-job racist who worked from fantasy, not science. This is about specific traits that can be applied to anyone with enough money to pay for them, making money the differentiating factor.


And this isn't fantasy?

They can't even make effective Meds yet.
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