[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')hings are great out there, this construction guy just stopped by with new 'phone books'. I told him I don't want em as I use the internet. He said he gets $.05 a house for delievering these. Things are l@@ken great. He has no other work right now. I'm sure he's saving a bundle.

[retiredguy]

I've got a plumber coming to the house this week to do a small project. I've know this guy for several years. He tells me the only work he is getting is the kind of project I'm hiring him to do. No new construction.

And this area is supposed to be recession-proof.

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Trim Tabs Investment Research estimated today that the U.S. economy shed 745,000 jobs in April (20,000 more than their March job loss estimates) as wages and salaries plunged an adjusted 5.7% year-over-year. TrimTabs estimated that the economy shed a record 5 million jobs in the past 12 months.

"If job losses continue at the present rate, the unemployment rate could top 10% by summer," said TrimTabs CEO Charles Biderman.

In a research note, TrimTabs reported that income tax refunds are up 16.5% year-over-year this year, providing a short-term boost to consumption. Unfortunately for the economy, however, the support from refunds is winding down.

Moreover, TrimTabs explained that President Obama’s "Making Work Pay" tax credit is too small to help the economy over the longer term.

"The Obama tax credit will distribute $20 billion to consumers from May through July," said Biderman. "This amount is less than one-quarter of the $90 billion the Bush tax credit pumped into consumers’ pocketbooks in the same period last year."

Finally, TrimTabs reported that real-time income tax data indicates that the personal savings rate was 1.6% in March, well below the 4.2% estimated by the Bureau of Economic Analysis.

[ColossalContrarian]

Can anyone tell me how paying off debt affects savings rate if it does at all?

If I’ve been paying more on my car and personal loan and will be out of debt in 6 months does this mean my savings rate has been lower or higher? Technically I’m not saving if I’m paying off debt but in a way I am because I’m no longer in the hole???

[copious.abundance]

>>> NY Times <<<
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Shift to Saving May Be Downturn’s Lasting Impact
By CATHERINE RAMPELL
Published: May 9, 2009

The economic downturn is forcing a return to a culture of thrift that many economists say could last well beyond the inevitable recovery.

This is not because Americans have suddenly become more financially virtuous or have learned the error of their free-spending ways. Instead, these experts say, Americans may have no choice but to continue pinching pennies.

This shift back to thrift may seem to be a healthy change for a consumer class known for spending more than it earns, but there is a downside: American businesses have become so dependent on consumer spending that any pullback sends ripples through the economy.

Fearful of job losses and anxious over housing and stock declines, Americans are squirreling away more of their paychecks than they were before the recession. In the last year, the savings rate — the percentage of after-tax income that people do not spend — has risen to above 4 percent, from virtually zero.

This happens in nearly every recession, and the effect is usually fleeting. Once the economy recovers, Americans revert to more spending and less saving. Over the last 30 years, the savings rate has fluctuated from over 14 percent in the 1970s to negative 2.7 percent in 2005, meaning Americans were spending more than they made.

This time is expected to be different, because the forces that enabled and even egged on consumers to save less and spend more — easy credit and skyrocketing asset values — could be permanently altered by the financial crisis that spun the economy into recession.

[...]

[ki11ercane]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '&')gt;>> NY Times <<<
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Shift to Saving May Be Downturn’s Lasting Impact
By CATHERINE RAMPELL
Published: May 9, 2009

The economic downturn is forcing a return to a culture of thrift that many economists say could last well beyond the inevitable recovery.

This is not because Americans have suddenly become more financially virtuous or have learned the error of their free-spending ways. Instead, these experts say, Americans may have no choice but to continue pinching pennies.

This shift back to thrift may seem to be a healthy change for a consumer class known for spending more than it earns, but there is a downside: American businesses have become so dependent on consumer spending that any pullback sends ripples through the economy.

Fearful of job losses and anxious over housing and stock declines, Americans are squirreling away more of their paychecks than they were before the recession. In the last year, the savings rate — the percentage of after-tax income that people do not spend — has risen to above 4 percent, from virtually zero.

This happens in nearly every recession, and the effect is usually fleeting. Once the economy recovers, Americans revert to more spending and less saving. Over the last 30 years, the savings rate has fluctuated from over 14 percent in the 1970s to negative 2.7 percent in 2005, meaning Americans were spending more than they made.

This time is expected to be different, because the forces that enabled and even egged on consumers to save less and spend more — easy credit and skyrocketing asset values — could be permanently altered by the financial crisis that spun the economy into recession.

[...]

[copious.abundance]

Still headin' up!

LINK
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]US savings rate soars to 14-year high
By Laurent Belsie
06.01.09

Americans’ income rose unexpectedly in April in a sign that the Obama administration’s stimulus package is finally beginning to push substantial sums of money into consumer pocketbooks.

The income surge failed to boost consumer spending. But in a long-term plus for the economy, Americans’ personal savings rate climbed to its highest level in 14 years, the Commerce Department reported Monday.

A 1.1 percent rise

Disposable personal income rose 1.1 percent, the largest increase since January. Roughly a third of that income boost came from provisions of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, which reduced income taxes and boosted unemployment and other social benefit payments during the month.

Absent that boost, disposable income would have grown 0.7 percent in April, the department said. The consensus among economists was that income would fall slightly in April.

The surge in income did not cause a consumer spending boom. But the 0.1 percent fall in personal consumption expenditures was slightly less than what most economists expected. Any decrease in purchases makes it more difficult for the economy to rebound, at least in the short term.

Less spending, more saving

But in a positive sign for the longer term, Americans’ higher income and lower spending pushed their savings rate to 5.7 percent of disposable income. That’s the highest savings rate since February 1995.

The positive data came with one caveat: The Commerce Department reduced private wages and salaries at an annual rate of $20 billion in the first three months of the year to account for smaller-than-usual bonus payments. The government didn’t make a similar downward revision in April.

[vision-master]

' soars'!

We flying hi now.

[copious.abundance]

Up, up and away!!



LINK
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]U.S. Savings Rate at Highest Point in 15 Years
By JACK HEALY
Published: June 26, 2009

Tax cuts from the stimulus package and increases on Social Security checks lifted personal incomes sharply in May, the government reported on Friday, but it appears that many people are putting that money away instead of spending it.

Although personal spending increased slightly last month, the saving rate climbed to its highest level in 15 years as consumers tried to build a buffer against the threat of job losses and more economic hardships.

The personal saving rate, which dipped below zero during the housing boom as Americans tapped home-equity loans and other easy lines of credit, rose to 6.9 percent in May, the Commerce Department reported. That was its highest point since December 1993.

[...]

[TheAntiDoomer]

Is there anyone with any graphics/photoshop ability that could come up with something depcting "You can't have your doom and eat it too?"

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheAntiDoomer', 'I')s there anyone with any graphics/photoshop ability that could come up with something depcting "You can't have your doom at eat it too?"

[shortonoil]

When you quit paying the mortgage and CC it shows up as an increase in savings. Default on your underwater debt and your net worth and cash balance increase. A big piece of the recent MSM applauded improvement has come about as a result of transfer payments.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ersonal current transfer receipts increased $162.6 billion in May, compared with an increase of $59.1 billion in April. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 provides for one-time payments of $250 to eligible individuals receiving social security, supplemental security income, veterans benefits, and railroad retirement benefits. These benefits boosted the level of personal current transfer receipts by $157.6 billions at an annual rate in May. These payments are classified in “other” personal current transfer receipts rather than in old-age, survivors, disability, and health insurance benefits because they are not benefits paid from the social security trust fund.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', 'I')n actuality personal income is falling off a cliff.

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('shortonoil', 'I')n actuality personal income is falling off a cliff. This will put a crimp in those saving numbers down the line as another 627,000 file for unemployment next month, and 627,000 fall off the roles in September.

[copious.abundance]

I'm merely using the official definitions. The definition which, a few years ago, said Americans had a negative savings rate is the exact same definition which is now telling us the American savings rate is going back up. If you don't like the definition, too bad. But in yet another case of "You can't have your doom and eat it too," you aren't going to be able to devise a credible definition of your own which *always* shows the American savings rate to be low or negative. If we used a definition which included net worth due to housing values, etc., then such a definition would have shown the American savings rate to be sky-high a few years ago when the value of people's houses were going waaay up. So, either the savings rate was sky-high a few years ago and is rock-bottom now, or it was rock-bottom a few years ago and is sky-high now. "You can't have your doom and eat it, too."

[shortonoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ersonal current transfer receipts increased $162.6 billion in May, compared with an increase of $59.1 billion in April. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 provides for one-time payments of $250 to eligible individuals receiving social security, supplemental security income, veterans benefits, and railroad retirement benefits. These benefits boosted the level of personal current transfer receipts by $157.6 billions at an annual rate in May. These payments are classified in “other” personal current transfer receipts rather than in old-age, survivors, disability, and health insurance benefits because they are not benefits paid from the social security trust fund.

[odegaard]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'I')'m merely using the official definitions. The definition which, a few years ago, said Americans had a negative savings rate is the exact same definition which is now telling us the American savings rate is going back up. If you don't like the definition, too bad. But in yet another case of "You can't have your doom and eat it too," you aren't going to be able to devise a credible definition of your own which *always* shows the American savings rate to be low or negative. If we used a definition which included net worth due to housing values, etc...

[ColossalContrarian]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aome1_t5Z5y8
Surging U.S. Savings Rate Reduces Dependence on China
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ouriel Roubini, an economics professor at New York University and chairman of RGE Monitor, forecasts that the savings rate will ultimately reach 10 percent to 11 percent. What’s critical, he said in a Bloomberg Television interview on June 24, is how quickly it increases.
A rapid rise in the next year because of a collapse in consumption would push the economy, already in its deepest contraction in 50 years, further into recession, he said. If it occurs over a few years, the economy may grow.

[odegaard]

To: ColossalContrarian

STOP posting pictures of your girlfriend that's nasty.

I don't want to see that sh!t.

//

After having my eyeballs assaulted like that.
This picture makes for more pleasant viewing.