[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Hermes', 'W')ow. Why did I bother talking to Narz?

Lesson learned.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'B')reeding is the most natural thing in the world, just like death. One of the things I hate the most about our civilization is how it forces us to suppress and subvert our instincts.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', ' ') Most of us do.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', '
')We are overpopulated because of industrial civilization and industrial agriculture, not because we are stupid.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')If your own neo-tribal life were so satisfying you wouldn't be crying for attention here online. The only reason I'm here is my life is a goddamn mess right now. If I had half the resources you did I wouldn't be yapping online.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')For us to create a system that is unsustainable by itself is not that bad considering the short-term benefits, but to not have some kind of plan to gently ease out of it without a massive die-off is stupid, not to mention immoral.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I')f we can have 10 billion w/o the crazy rate of species extinction we see today--if only we had the guts to do the right thing, then why can't you extend your clarion call to population reduction? I mean, why go to such extreme effort to reduce our per capita environmental footprint just to enable our population to expand unrestricted to 10 billion? Wouldn't it be a hell of a lot easier to engineer a comfortable life for, maybe, 4 billion by 2050 and 2 billion by 2100 rather than having to walk a literal tightrope at 10 billion at 2050 and then be left having to make ANOTHER hail mary pass to enable yet another population doubling? If the final goal is sustainability, population must, at the very least, flatline, otherwise humanity is just in kick-the-can mode and will eventually crash down the line.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '
')so far so good.

[yesplease]

We don't need 100 year for population to level off, what we need is a change in how population behaves. Even if we nuke 6 billion people off the face of the planet, given how we've seen and see people behave, the billion or so left will just increase their impact on the planet proportionally. What we need to do is change to some extent what we do and how we do it depending on how much it impacts our environment, and let the birth rate continue to decline.

P.S. The planet will be fine. It was fine before we were here, and it'll be fine after we're gone. It's only limping along insofar as it's limped along many times before we were even a glimmer in a chimps eye. It's the people who are gonna be screwed if things don't change.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ']')I don't see much point in reduction because people tend to, sooner or later, reach some sort of balance w/ their environment

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'W')e don't need 100 year for population to level off, what we need is a change in how population behaves.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'W')e don't need 100 year for population to level off, what we need is a change in how population behaves.

[WildRose]

For anyone who is interested in reading about transition towns:

http://www.celsias.com/article/introduc ... ion-towns/

The link is from a UK initiative. Several towns in the UK are adopting
low-energy lifestyle; I recall reading about them a couple of years ago.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('WildRose', 'F')or anyone who is interested in reading about transition towns:

http://www.celsias.com/article/introduc ... ion-towns/

The link is from a UK initiative. Several towns in the UK are adopting
low-energy lifestyle; I recall reading about them a couple of years ago.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') dunno, Narz. Hermes hardly posts at all. Both you guys cut each other some slack, ok?

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', ']')I don't see much point in reduction because people tend to, sooner or later, reach some sort of balance w/ their environment

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'W')e don't need 100 year for population to level off, what we need is a change in how population behaves.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'W')hat studies are those?

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'B')ecause everything is black and white, and we all have to be perfect or we and our opinions are worthless, right, Narz? And because it's easy to become a pure anarchist hunter gatherer type person, and not have to pay bills, or deal with ownership, or any of that stuff, so obviously anyone who sees that as an ideal yet still uses the internet must be really messed up and immoral.

Grow up.