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THE Homeless Hooverville Tent City Thread (merged)

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby vision-master » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 11:35:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'W')e have a similar issue in one region since the word spread that obtaining public assistance and emergency housing is faster, easier, they have less strict job search & apartment search rules, plus there are more low income rentals and slumlords willing to rent to people with without sufficient income(s), work history, references, credit, last month's rent and security.

Once the word gets out, the influx of people seeking shelter and handouts can't be met. The media and word-of-mouth effectively screwed local newcomers seeking shelter now occupied by out-of-towners. If you've got a sweet deal, you should probably keep it to yourself.

Other counties steer/push the homeless, criminals and public assistance clients to these areas. Some of the welfare motels and slumlord areas have become a dumping grounds for the homeless, criminals, sex offenders, plus their friends and families.


You do a terrific job of outlinimg all the problems that come with an increasing Homeless population. What you do not do is come up with any reasonable solutions to those problems. Just where would you house all these folks now anyhow? They aren't all drug addicts and sex offenders any more, just middle class folks who lost their jobs and got foreclosed on. What do you propose should be done about that?

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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 11:44:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'M')exico? What are we doing, playing Musical Chairs? We exchange our evicted McMansion owners for their Drug War refugees? What?

Those who CAN take care of themselves (it would require actually activating their brains and bods), MUST take care of themselves. If they can't, they lose.
If you can't cut the cancer out of the body, the entire body will die.
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 11:52:32

This is so dreary. :(
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby nobodypanic » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 11:58:03

there'll come a point when one of these tent cities fights back. then god help everyone.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby MarkJ » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 12:09:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'Y')ou do a terrific job of outlinimg all the problems that come with an increasing Homeless population. What you do not do is come up with any reasonable solutions to those problems. Just where would you house all these folks now anyhow?

The best solution for many of the displaced middle class families is to move in with friends or family, rent homes/apartments/camps/mobile homes in regions with a reasonable cost of living, split costs with room-mates etc.

If they're unemployed with very limited cash, credit, assets, income(s) and/or can't move in with family, friends or co-workers, the best temporary solution in some regions is putting the displaced middle class families in the better mid range motels. These motels have decent rooms, limited room service, furnishings, cable, internet access, local phone service, plenty of parking and access to shopping, banking, public transit and employment.

We have a glut of unrented apartments and homes in some regions, but a shortage of qualified tenants with sufficient incomes, credit, references, work history, first/last/security. There's a multi-year waiting list to get into the subsidized housing projects and better quality reasonably priced apartment complexes. The subsidized housing often goes to the most needy such as single mothers with the most kids.

To get landlords/investors to rent to income/credit/employment challenged tenants, they'd have to modify/waive existing landlord tenant law, remove landlord liability, cover/insure security deposits/ property damages, substantially raise public assistance grants and perhaps provide other incentives to offset the large risk they're taking.

Unfortunately there's no long term solution to house many low income people since their roadblock to employment & income is based on their their lack of education, skills, experience, mental/physical discipline, mental/physical health, spending/savings/investment discipline, work ethic, ability to learn, reliable transportation, ability to pass pre-employment screening (psych/drug/background check), driver's license, driving record, physical appearance etc.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby Ayoob » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 14:08:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'W')e have a similar issue in one region since the word spread that obtaining public assistance and emergency housing is faster, easier, they have less strict job search & apartment search rules, plus there are more low income rentals and slumlords willing to rent to people with without sufficient income(s), work history, references, credit, last month's rent and security.
Once the word gets out, the influx of people seeking shelter and handouts can't be met. The media and word-of-mouth effectively screwed local newcomers seeking shelter now occupied by out-of-towners. If you've got a sweet deal, you should probably keep it to yourself.
Other counties steer/push the homeless, criminals and public assistance clients to these areas. Some of the welfare motels and slumlord areas have become a dumping grounds for the homeless, criminals, sex offenders, plus their friends and families.
You do a terrific job of outlinimg all the problems that come with an increasing Homeless population. What you do not do is come up with any reasonable solutions to those problems. Just where would you house all these folks now anyhow? They aren't all drug addicts and sex offenders any more, just middle class folks who lost their jobs and got foreclosed on. What do you propose should be done about that?

I have a good idea. Open up a prison colony in Liberia or Zimbabwe. There's no way to make either country worse. Both nations are complete disasters beyond any hope of salvage, they must be built anew.

Take our homeless, our poor, our disenfranchised, our murderers and child molesters, our former bankers, our illegal aliens and the contractors who employed them, and give them each a rifle. A rifle, a pair of boots, a sack of dried beans and a pot, and airlift them to Zimbabwe.

It's time to start Australia 2.0, the African version. Have our new emmigrants come bearing gifts of liberty and freedom for the oppressed poor over there. Empty out our prisons, homeless shelters, lines at the food bank, the juvenile detention centers, welfare lines, everybody who can't make it in today's America, and give them a chance to build the future they want.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 14:22:08

And, don't forget to take the plaque from the Statue of Liberty- "Give us your poor..."
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 17:39:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'A')nd, don't forget to take the plaque from the Statue of Liberty- "Give us your poor..."



Agree. That idiotic plaque has been a pure poison. Why any nation would honor such a nationally suicidal quote is beyond me. What kind of fifth columnist would write such trash anyhow?
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 17:43:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'A')nd, don't forget to take the plaque from the Statue of Liberty- "Give us your poor..."



Agree. That idiotic plaque has been a pure poison. Why any nation would honor such a nationally suicidal quote is beyond me. What kind of fifth columnist would write such trash anyhow?


At the time the US was expanding and needed cheap labor. Poor people are great to exploit. Now that everyplace on earth is full to the brim with people, obviously its suicidal to take in more of them.

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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby nobodypanic » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 21:22:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'M')exico? What are we doing, playing Musical Chairs? We exchange our evicted McMansion owners for their Drug War refugees? What?

Those who CAN take care of themselves (it would require actually activating their brains and bods), MUST take care of themselves. If they can't, they lose.
If you can't cut the cancer out of the body, the entire body will die.

and how much of the world's resources do we consume?

i think it can be argued strongly that WE are the cancer.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby Ferretlover » Sun 15 Mar 2009, 21:32:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('nobodypanic', 'a')nd how much of the world's resources do we consume? i think it can be argued strongly that WE are the cancer.
From the planet's viewpoint, I would heartily agree. There are just too many people devouring resources.
"Open the gates of hell!" ~Morgan Freeman's character in the movie, Olympus Has Fallen.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby MarkJ » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 08:35:16

In order to house the masses, they need affordable homes, which require having a good paying steady job. Many of the good paying unskilled or semi skilled jobs have been eliminated since we don't need as many unskilled/semi-skilled laborers.


Outsourcing, offshoring, automation, robotics, computerization, communications, temp workers, part-time workers, immigrant workers, subcontractors, motorized construction equipment, construction/building/assembly techniques, pre-fab, mass production, power-tools, air tools, specialized tools, specialized equipment, specialized hardware etc has eliminated the need for many full time workers in many different industries.

From an affordable housing perspective, homes, apartments, condos, townhouses or manufactured homes may never be affordable for many due to building/safety/occupancy codes, lead/asbestos abatement, landlord/tenant law, zoning laws and deed restrictions limiting subdivision, minimum home size, minimum lot size, setback, road frontage, manufactured homes, muilti-family homes, apartment buildings etc.

The lack of jack-of-all-trades skills, tools and knowledge are also major roadblocks to home ownership. The best home bargains are often single family, multi family or mobile home fixer-uppers, but many people don't have the motivation, tools, skills or knowledge to fix them up, then maintain or repair them.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby rangerone314 » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 08:58:49

This just proves my point, that all "civilized" human societies ultimately subscribe to the philosophy of "might makes right", regardless of whatever phony ideological propaganda they advertise.

If they had a large shipment of a few thousand AK47's and a few dozen TOWs arrive instead of food, maybe they would have gotten more respect.
An ideology is by definition not a search for TRUTH-but a search for PROOF that its point of view is right

Equals barter and negotiate-people with power just take

You cant defend freedom by eliminating it-unknown

Our elected reps should wear sponsor patches on their suits so we know who they represent-like Nascar-Roy
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby Revi » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 09:16:57

What do we do with all these people? We need some kind of a homeless refuge. Maybe it's time to bring back the poor farms. They were really awful, but each town had one.

http://wchsmn.org/content/2004/11/poorfarm/

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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby vision-master » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 09:32:18

That place is an inn now. 8)
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby MarkJ » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 11:11:17

Talked with some renters last week that have been on a waiting list for subsidized housing for close to 4 years. They're being evicted from their apartment, so the county is going to put them up in a motel at a cost of $50 per night until they can find affordable housing. Some larger familes require two motel rooms.

The waiting list for subsidized housing is so many years long, that some waiting lists are closed. When they open up a new waiting list in some regions, people will camp out for applications, plus the applications are gone in minutes.

Scoring a subsidized housing unit is like hitting the lottery.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 12:17:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '
')Scoring a subsidized housing unit is like hitting the lottery.


If they'd move out all the illegal aliens there would be more units available.

For instance, is Obama's illegal alien aunt still illegally living in her subsidized housing unit in Boston? :badgrin:
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby nobodypanic » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 16:34:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'T')alked with some renters last week that have been on a waiting list for subsidized housing for close to 4 years. They're being evicted from their apartment, so the county is going to put them up in a motel at a cost of $50 per night until they can find affordable housing. Some larger familes require two motel rooms.

The waiting list for subsidized housing is so many years long, that some waiting lists are closed. When they open up a new waiting list in some regions, people will camp out for applications, plus the applications are gone in minutes.

Scoring a subsidized housing unit is like hitting the lottery.

and yet we're awash in abandoned homes.

become squatters. squat!
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby Plantagenet » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 18:13:54

Squatting (trespassing) is a felony.

It would be better to get these houses foreclosed on, and then sold cheaply at auction to private
buyers who need homes, or who are willing to rent the homes.
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Re: What's worse than a tent city? Being evicted from one

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Mon 16 Mar 2009, 18:31:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'S')quatting (trespassing) is a felony.

It would be better to get these houses foreclosed on, and then sold cheaply at auction to private
buyers who need homes, or who are willing to rent the homes.


If the house is EMPTY, who are you tresspassing ON? Nobody owns the freaking property, it was sold of as bits and pieces as part of a securitization scheme to thousands of folks from Peoria to Timbuktu. If a mortgage complany is holding the paper, they can be obligated to rent said property to anybody for whatever the market will bear, if they only can get $1/day for it, so be it. The issue here is the companies holding the paper on the properties won't mark to market, they won't eat the loss.

Anyhow, this all begs the real question here, which is what must be done to resolve the problem. Its plain stupid to just say "Everybody has to go live with their relatives". That just isn;t going to HAPPEN, and as long as the homelessness problem grows, those who still have homes are going to have more and more problems. It doesn;t behoove you to just say screw them, its their problem. Its YOUR problem also.

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