With all our discussions of Doomsteads and analysis of the Real Estate crash, there hasn't been much talk here about the growing problem of Homelessness as the Greatest Depression begins to take hold. Here is a brief sampling of articles from around the country for the last month or so
California
Hawaii
West Virginia
Massachusetts
Indiana
Georgia
Texas
The sad thing I see so far is how utterly unrealistic some folks are in their expectations and how they are currently dealing with what is obviously a growing emergency
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '&')quot;Unfortunately I think we are going to see it get worse before it gets better, said McCall. "I'm hopeful by the end of the year maybe we'll see some relief from the situation.
PeakOil is You
THE Homeless Thread (merged)
The Homeless Thread
by ReverseEngineer » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 02:10:36
Now, who here thinks we will see relief from this problem by the end of the year? Way more likely is that by the end of the year the problem we have now will have doubled or tripled in size. The amorphous collection of agencies and church groups and the Salvation Army that traditionally have handled this problem are of course sorely underfunded, and woefuly short of facilities that can accomodate homeless FAMILIES, as opposed to your typical image of the Homeless Bag Lady or Wino.
People are of course taking the problem into their own hands and putting up Tent Cities, but these of course go hand in hand with Sanitation problems and Crime. So you have your city Cops and Legislators busying themselves closing down parks at night and supposedly directing the Homeless camped out there to appropriate shelters, which of course either don't exist or are filled past capacity.
So the question I am posing to the group members is just what kind of policies we need to take towards the increasing Homeless population both in the short term and in the long term? I'll pitch out a few ideas to start.
Sanitation is probably the biggest problem, lack of bathrooms in many of these Tent Cities. To resolve that problem inthe short term, I think we need to build many more Public Bathrooms, which would give work to unemployed construction workers to start, and then employment for Janitors and Maintenance staff for said public bathrooms. Tracts of empty land can be designated as Tent Sites that are within walking distance of these public bath houses.
Since many people who are put out of their homes by foreclosure still own a Car, large Parking lots both Public and Private should be designated as Carstead Sites. All over the country there are closed Truckstops which could be converted to Carstead Communities.
Of course we also have all those Foreclosed McMansions as well, in a foreclosed on McMansion a family could be assigned one of the bedrooms, and you house 4-6 families per McMansion, and try to put together people who are related or at least know each other somewhat. Obviously you will have problems with this, but at least the people will have a roof over their heads. Its just plain stupid to have empty houses and people without houses at the same time.
Another good question for the group is just how BIG the Homeless population needs to get before we really see serious social repurcussions from it. Right now, these Tent Cities in most of the locations I Googled up seem to be in the neighborhood of around 300-500 people in towns and cities in the 100,000 or more range, a small enough percentage that they still can be swept under the rug to an extent by the local Gestapo. My guess would be when we start to see 1000 or more people in such Obamavilles that the crime and violence will increase to the point we can't ignore it any longer. How long before we arrive at that point?
Finally, the most controversial question of all, what about those FEMA Camps? Will the homeless be moved in that direction, and WHEN? Clearly, the population that we can effectively house is as much a limiting factor to our overall carrying capacity as how many we can feed. Shelter is a fundamental human need right up there with Food as basic to survival. With the collapse of the monetary system and the ownership system of property, its a significant problem to resolve in how to shelter those who have been disenfranchised from the system through no fault of their own as their jobs are cut and the economic system spins down out of control. Is merely being rendered homeless because you lost your job enough to send you to a FEMA Camp, or to the Human Waste Reprocessing Facility in San Antonio?
Reverse Engineer
Last edited by Ferretlover on Tue 28 Apr 2009, 21:46:17, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged with THE Homeless Thread.
Reason: Merged with THE Homeless Thread.
-
ReverseEngineer - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3352
- Joined: Wed 16 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Re: The Homeless Thread
by timmac » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 02:58:44
Of course we also have all those Foreclosed McMansions as well, in a foreclosed on McMansion a family could be assigned one of the bedrooms, and you house 4-6 families per McMansion, and try to put together people who are related or at least know each other somewhat. Obviously you will have problems with this, but at least the people will have a roof over their heads. Its just plain stupid to have empty houses and people without houses at the same time.
Well there goes the neighborhood,, This is what Oboma would do if it got a whole lot worse, people living for free in the house next to mine that is forclosed and not selling,, If this did happen I would just walk away from my mortage and so would many more,, I vote for a tent city far away from my neighborhood...
Well there goes the neighborhood,, This is what Oboma would do if it got a whole lot worse, people living for free in the house next to mine that is forclosed and not selling,, If this did happen I would just walk away from my mortage and so would many more,, I vote for a tent city far away from my neighborhood...
-
timmac - Permanently Banned
- Posts: 1901
- Joined: Thu 27 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
- Location: Las Vegas
Re: The Homeless Thread
by Sixstrings » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 03:04:26
Reverse, haven't you heard? The Depression has been canceled:
Obama: Economic crisis 'not as bad as we think'
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
U.S. retail sales drop not as bad as feared
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/12/ ... 13econ.php
Stocks rally on good news for banks, GM, retailers
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-Stre ... 21122.html
Obama: Economic crisis 'not as bad as we think'
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
U.S. retail sales drop not as bad as feared
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/12/ ... 13econ.php
Stocks rally on good news for banks, GM, retailers
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-Stre ... 21122.html
-
Sixstrings - Fusion
- Posts: 15160
- Joined: Tue 08 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Re: The Homeless Thread
by ReverseEngineer » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 03:21:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '
')Well there goes the neighborhood,, This is what Oboma would do if it got a whole lot worse, people living for free in the house next to mine that is forclosed and not selling,, If this did happen I would just walk away from my mortage and so would many more,, I vote for a tent city far away from my neighborhood...
')Well there goes the neighborhood,, This is what Oboma would do if it got a whole lot worse, people living for free in the house next to mine that is forclosed and not selling,, If this did happen I would just walk away from my mortage and so would many more,, I vote for a tent city far away from my neighborhood...
No doubt, if the McMansion next door is turned into PUBLIC HOUSING, its NOT going to do wonders for the Property Values in your neighborhood. LOL. On the other hand however, neither does having an empty and overgrown McMansion benefit the property values in your neighborhood EITHER. So which is WORSE here, leaving the property empty to be vandalized and taken over by anyone at all, or to put some people in it who might care for the property?
Of course you could suggest that the empty houses simply should be razed, so nobody can shelter in them at all? Fewer available properties for shelter would raise the value of YOUR property, right?
Its a classic Haves versus Have Nots problem. If you are still employed, still able to pay your mortgage, you get PISSED that somebody else who is NOT paying a mortgage gets to live in a nice house just like yours! Why should *I* pay my mortgage if J6P next door gets a Mortgage Obamout? So EVERYBODY defaults on their mortgages! Obviously that will not do wonders for the solvency of the banks holding said mortgages.
What this SHOULD tell you is that the economic system is TOAST, this is unsalvageable because the civil problems you get from Homelessness destroy the property values either way. You simply cannot maintain the artifice here when so many are out of work and simply don;t have the economic means to support this model. Its a direct outcome of the centralization of wealth into the hands of the few. The soical contract demands that for the most part people have affordable housing, just like it demands they have affordable food. If they don't, you get crime as a result, stealing for food, squatting on empty properties etc.
The Haves of course will try to shift the Have Nots to tracts of land they cannot see from the vista of the Bay Window of their McMansions. Those Tent Cities are just so DIRTY, EEEEWWWWWW. It will be successful for a while, for as long as the percentage of Have Nots remains below around 20%. Once the percentage passes that, its not possible anymore to hide it or sweep it under the rug. The only question now is how long it takes to surpass that 20% mark. Bold Prediction for tonight, I will give it about a year.
Reverse Engineer
-
ReverseEngineer - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3352
- Joined: Wed 16 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Re: The Homeless Thread
by ReverseEngineer » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 03:24:04
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'R')everse, haven't you heard? The Depression has been canceled:
Obama: Economic crisis 'not as bad as we think'
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
U.S. retail sales drop not as bad as feared
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/12/ ... 13econ.php
Stocks rally on good news for banks, GM, retailers
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-Stre ... 21122.html
Obama: Economic crisis 'not as bad as we think'
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1
U.S. retail sales drop not as bad as feared
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/12/ ... 13econ.php
Stocks rally on good news for banks, GM, retailers
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wall-Stre ... 21122.html
Thank GOD! I am so relieved. Happy Days are Here Again!
Reverse Engineer
-
ReverseEngineer - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3352
- Joined: Wed 16 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Re: The Homeless Thread
by SeaGypsy » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 03:25:46
Having worked with Aboriginal, highly social security dependent, high transience, homelessness, incarceration, early mortality, etc. I have done a lot of thinking about social security.
An idea adapted from a few models around the world, I came up with the following concept.
The idea is that there be developed a secondary tier to the system; where there is an opt in or opt out cashless system operating as a safety valve for those slipping under or through the net of the current cash based system.
This new tier would consist of the provision of very modest housing, communalized food centers, medical clinic, clothing and household goods charity; but zero cash.
In this system if you want cash you must work for it. If you want to smoke or drink liquor or do drugs, you will have to work.
In the meanwhile you are safely housed, fed and cared for.
This system could operate as a halfway house for non violent offenders; who if given cash, have shown the propensity for wasteful spending. It would keep the social contract going for much less than the cash based system per person or per family; whilst giving the taxpayers assurance their money is not ending up in the pockets of a drug dealer, gambling house or brothel owner.
If successful, as the collapse unfolds, this system could carry a much higher burden of the population much cheaper, and at the same time not discourage free enterprise and initiative the way a cash based system does.
An idea adapted from a few models around the world, I came up with the following concept.
The idea is that there be developed a secondary tier to the system; where there is an opt in or opt out cashless system operating as a safety valve for those slipping under or through the net of the current cash based system.
This new tier would consist of the provision of very modest housing, communalized food centers, medical clinic, clothing and household goods charity; but zero cash.
In this system if you want cash you must work for it. If you want to smoke or drink liquor or do drugs, you will have to work.
In the meanwhile you are safely housed, fed and cared for.
This system could operate as a halfway house for non violent offenders; who if given cash, have shown the propensity for wasteful spending. It would keep the social contract going for much less than the cash based system per person or per family; whilst giving the taxpayers assurance their money is not ending up in the pockets of a drug dealer, gambling house or brothel owner.
If successful, as the collapse unfolds, this system could carry a much higher burden of the population much cheaper, and at the same time not discourage free enterprise and initiative the way a cash based system does.
- SeaGypsy
- Master Prognosticator
- Posts: 9285
- Joined: Wed 04 Feb 2009, 04:00:00
Re: The Homeless Thread
by timmac » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 03:39:32
No doubt, if the McMansion next door is turned into PUBLIC HOUSING, its NOT going to do wonders for the Property Values in your neighborhood. LOL. On the other hand however, neither does having an empty and overgrown McMansion benefit the property values in your neighborhood EITHER. So which is WORSE here, leaving the property empty to be vandalized and taken over by anyone at all, or to put some people in it who might care for the property?
In my case leave the property vacant, I keep a tight eye on it, no vandals here and not much for weeds in the desert, having a bunch of unemployeed homless freebies living in there will do more damage, they don't own it or even pay rent so why take care of it, however if we keep going down this rat hole the Oboma types will turn these vacant homes over to the homless and than watch the paying homeowners walk, hell I might just stay and not pay my mortage and ask for my free rent..
This may sound mean but if it starts to happen that they are placing homless into vacant homes mine next door just might go up in smoke
In my case leave the property vacant, I keep a tight eye on it, no vandals here and not much for weeds in the desert, having a bunch of unemployeed homless freebies living in there will do more damage, they don't own it or even pay rent so why take care of it, however if we keep going down this rat hole the Oboma types will turn these vacant homes over to the homless and than watch the paying homeowners walk, hell I might just stay and not pay my mortage and ask for my free rent..
This may sound mean but if it starts to happen that they are placing homless into vacant homes mine next door just might go up in smoke
-
timmac - Permanently Banned
- Posts: 1901
- Joined: Thu 27 Mar 2008, 03:00:00
- Location: Las Vegas
Re: The Homeless Thread
by ReverseEngineer » Fri 13 Mar 2009, 03:45:31
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timmac', '
')
This may sound mean but if it starts to happen that they are placing homless into vacant homes mine next door just might go up in smoke
')
This may sound mean but if it starts to happen that they are placing homless into vacant homes mine next door just might go up in smoke
So, after you Torch your McMansion, where do YOU intend on living?
Reverse Engineer
-
ReverseEngineer - Intermediate Crude
- Posts: 3352
- Joined: Wed 16 Jul 2008, 03:00:00
Anybody who can live in a Tent in Alaska is OK in my book, that is one tough thing to do. LOL. As I am sure you know having been subjected to my diatribes for a decent period here, I also don't own a McMansion so I don't give a Rat's Ass who pitches their tent anywhere at all. LOL.
