[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I')nterestingly enough there is a counterpart to Eugenics: Dysgenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysgenics

You either believe in people living in a natural (ie more animal-like) state where natural selection takes place, or a civilized state where you either believe in eugenics or dysgenics.

Eugenics got a bad name because Hitler was a psychotic idiot.

I do think the longer a society has to allow dysgenics to become a factor by allowing those to survive & breed that nature wouldn't allow to, that eventually the society will fall prey to a selection mechanism, collapse and be replaced by another society.

Every dog has his day.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')So, my question is; are we merely beasts of burden or spiritual beings from a higher order?

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DaveP', 'I')n what way is an illegal alien on benefits any more of a parasite than an American perpetually on benefits? The net effect is the same.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'T')W sounds like he's got serious issues and should be put out of harms way.

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DaveP', 'I')n what way is an illegal alien on benefits any more of a parasite than an American perpetually on benefits? The net effect is the same.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'C')OME ON TWILLIAM WHERE IS THE PRECEDENT MAKING EUGENIC EUTHANASIA NOT MURDER?

[SeaGypsy]

You change your tune whenever you feel like it. On top of what I have already said, you are either evil or an idiot.

You have at various points shifted focus from, chronically unemployed, to disabled to premature to criminal.

This hints at your wider objective; legalizing Murder, in the name of the greater good.

It does not seem that you have any solid position except that YOU are not a parasite (worthy of extermination) but you are happy to help the State decide who is; based on your values& belief system.

That is the basis of Eugenic Racial 'Cleansing'.

(Read 'State sponsored Murder.').

I would love to get you in a room with some of my aboriginal clients.

You would not beat them if you could not get away from them.

Explain to them exactly what you are trying to say here; (Doubtful since you carefully position yourself as a non instigator.) then lock you in for 20 minutes with a guy in a wheelchair.

At least one guy I know would probably kill you easily, then laugh about what you did/said to deserve it.

Would that be Murder? Or justifiable homicide.?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'Y')ou change your tune whenever you feel like it. On top of what I have already said, you are either evil or an idiot.

[SeaGypsy]

I elaborated above.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') elaborated above.

[SeaGypsy]

I am tempted to say something more nasty to you but put it this way:

Did your father never tell you that a real man does not say something about someone in public that he would not say to his face!

You are gutless. Therefore you should probably be added to the list.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I') am tempted to say something more nasty to you but put it this way:

Did your father never tell you that a real man does not say something about someone in public that he would not say to his face!

You are gutless. Therefore you should probably be added to the list.

[SeaGypsy]

[
You don't think that your histrionics over 'all killing is murder' and your implied abhorrence of said killing, followed by your professed relish of the idea of me being killed is hypocritical?

If you were to pull such a stunt in my presence believe me, you would get considerably more than naming...[/quote]


Oh I'm so scared!

I don't mind being called a hypocrite by a rich white supremacist who is most interested in PO because of the investment potentials& makes a hobby of advocating Eugenics.

"To err is human, forgiveness divine."

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'T')William, back a few pages in this thread you used the term "genetic defectives" and I suspect around that time is when the eugenics idea came to people's minds. If you don't believe in eugenics then it should be fairly simple to clear it up by saying so. It seems to me your primary focus has been on voluntary euthanasia, and perhaps on allowing parents to decide not to resort to technology to sustain the life of a child who would otherwise die. Are you in favor of giving the power of deciding who to euthanize to the state, or leaving it in the hands of families? I personally do not believe the state should mandate people's euthanasia. I also believe the state should also not interfere if a person chooses to die, and family should have more say in these matters. It's not the state's business, it's family business.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'T')William, back a few pages in this thread you used the term "genetic defectives" and I suspect around that time is when the eugenics idea came to people's minds. If you don't believe in eugenics then it should be fairly simple to clear it up by saying so. It seems to me your primary focus has been on voluntary euthanasia, and perhaps on allowing parents to decide not to resort to technology to sustain the life of a child who would otherwise die. Are you in favor of giving the power of deciding who to euthanize to the state, or leaving it in the hands of families? I personally do not believe the state should mandate people's euthanasia. I also believe the state should also not interfere if a person chooses to die, and family should have more say in these matters. It's not the state's business, it's family business.

[SeaGypsy]

Since you seem to be busy TWilliams I will tell a little story& you may give your judgment.

Close friends of my family, have eight children, now aged 30-44.
When they were in their early teens two of the children started having trouble. The elder of the two was having life threatening angina attacks after having been in a wheelchair for 2 years. About the same time, the younger of these two was stumbling& falling often. They were not diagnosed until this time as having the newly testable genetic disorder know as Freidrich's Ataxia.

The abbreviated prognosis for this condition: like the common melial tissue disorder, multiple sclerosis; FA causes signal strength& clarity to break down in the nervous system. The patients very often die from angina triggered by the extreme emotional upset of having their future ripped away at the crucial time: adolescence.
If not, they live 15 years less long than average& need increasing levels of care throughout; before eventually choking on their tongue, which they have lost control of.

OK here's your choice TWilliams.

This family chose to accept the tragedy as best they could, but they only had this choice because the Australian people have seen fit to elect governments who continue funding help for these types of families (as I believe do your countries people).

Only God knows what would have happened to this family.

(1 in 100,000 people carry the gene for FA, when 2 of them conceive children they have a 1 in four chance of having a child with this disease, 3 in four they will carry the gene.The screening test costs as much as any DNA investigative test, NOBODY gets screened for FA unless their family has expressed the gene since it was diagnosed. If not present for 2 generations in the family; there is almost no chance of preventative screening occurring. {if there was who would pay for it?) Hence this could happen with no warning to anyone; like many other very rare genetic abnormalities which cost money to test for.


What should happen here TWilliams?

(split thread to 'Euthanasia a smokescreen for 'New' Eugenics')
By Sea Gypsy
.

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'I')f you were just talking about euthanasia, what the fark has that got to do with 'parasitism?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'W')hat should happen here TWilliams?

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shannymara', 'I') think it is better to let nature take its course. I have said this before on other threads here. I disagree that we can do a better job by design. Furthermore, I disagree that long term survival of our species should be our goal. I think we should mind our own business, take care of our own individual survival and that of our family and loved ones, and let nature decide what to do with the species. I know that's not a popular opinion, but too bad.

[SeaGypsy]

The way I read it you are playing masquerades, that's why I started the other thread on the key issue Euthanasia versus Eugenics.

What you are trying to do here is blur the line; but it's not your line to blur. Euthanasia has a huge strong and growing worldwide movement, for sound moral reasons. Eugenics has been condemned by history as always manifestly unfair, because there can be no fair impartial arbiter.

Although I am new on this site I have been reading a bit and I am aware of the moral argument for death controls, outside the euthanasia debate.

Fact is that whoever institutes such controls will be seen as the new Hitler or Stalin or some such. The nation who does this renders itself worthy of hate.

Hate starts wars Mr TWilliam.

War is the most likely, possibly the only morally acceptable form of death control. Starting one by enacting this kind of agenda would be somewhat less than intelligent.