[Revi]

There's nothing the matter with conservation and efficiency. I think that only a fraction of people will do it, but they will be the ones that can live within their income, while the yahoos with their giant pickups end up living in some trailer somewhere freezing in the dark, unable to go anywhere because they can't afford the gas.

The car of the immediate future is the hyundai accent. It's a completely inocuous car which is cheap to operate and can be bought cheaply.

Without credit most people won't be able to do much to their houses, so the only thing they can economize on is transportation. They might have a big pickup now, but when the economy tanks even worse next year they'll send it to the knacker.

This depression is hitting men far worse than women. Men drive the pickups. They will be back to riding shanks mare soon enough.

If they are lucky and smart they'll become insulation contractors and keep the truck for real work.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'N')ot being able to distinguish between two (or more) choices does not automatically make one of those a default position.

[TonyPrep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'W')ithout credit most people won't be able to do much to their houses, so the only thing they can economize on is transportation. They might have a big pickup now, but when the economy tanks even worse next year they'll send it to the knacker.

[rangerone314]

If we were to COMPLETELY ditch the personal automobile concept except as transportation to-and-from clustered distribution centers (ie Walmart, SamsClub/Costco) and mass-transit hubs (electric light rail) we MIGHT be able to survive economically.

If light rail for passengers and electric rail for freight were used, that would sidestep the whole liquid fuel for transporation issue. Celluosic ethanol or biodiesal might be enough if cars were only used for to-and-from transporation. (ie once a week trip to the nearest large centralized grocery store and daily trip to mass-transit hub)

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I')f we were to COMPLETELY ditch the personal automobile concept except as transportation to-and-from clustered distribution centers (ie Walmart, SamsClub/Costco) and mass-transit hubs (electric light rail) we MIGHT be able to survive economically.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I')f we were to COMPLETELY ditch the personal automobile concept except as transportation to-and-from clustered distribution centers (ie Walmart, SamsClub/Costco) and mass-transit hubs (electric light rail) we MIGHT be able to survive economically.

[zeke]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', ' ')It is not the fitest that survive but the most adaptable.

If our level of "intelligence" leads us to NOT be adaptable, then we will become extinct, intelligence notwithstanding.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', ' ')It is not the fitest that survive but the most adaptable.

If our level of "intelligence" leads us to NOT be adaptable, then we will become extinct, intelligence notwithstanding.

[zeke]

*sigh*...yeah...I can't add much to that.


z

[rangerone314]

I've always wondered about when civilizations like the Maya and the Romans collapse, if there was any realization at the time this was happening, and why, humans being such intelligent animals, they didn't take the measures necessary to stop a collapse.

I come to realise 2 things

1) There are always people who see the writing on the wall... including during the Roman times.

2) That advanced civilizations exist because of established systems, and such systems are usually too inflexible to survive great change, even if smart individuals within them recognize that collapse is inevitable without change.

People in the US are so hung up on supporting our established systems... they will cling to it like a lead life raft and drown doing so.

If I were somehow able to be cryogenically frozen and thawed out in the future, I don't I could explain to future people how we were unable to prevent the collapse of our civilization even though people like me knew it would happen.

We are not more intelligent or adaptable than the Romans, and only arrogance would let us think we are not subject to the same true natural laws...

[zeke]

I think it could be explained partly by the problem with hubris that h. sapiens has...

plus, you cite 6000 years ago...the time often cited as the turning from a cooperative society structure to something more empire/conquest oriented.

those observations don't help much now, as most ppl seem to want to add more wood to those fires...it would be nice to think that a huge failing of civilization would force a behavioral and cultural re-direct, and that maybe nature would weed out the imperialist dominator-competitor genes in favor of something superior.


yeah..


z

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('zeke', 'I') think it could be explained partly by the problem with hubris that h. sapiens has...

plus, you cite 6000 years ago...the time often cited as the turning from a cooperative society structure to something more empire/conquest oriented.

those observations don't help much now, as most ppl seem to want to add more wood to those fires...it would be nice to think that a huge failing of civilization would force a behavioral and cultural re-direct, and that maybe nature would weed out the imperialist dominator-competitor genes in favor of something superior.


yeah..


z