[rsch20]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou Space Man Spiff, Buck Rogers, Trekkie, Cyborg (Cybernetic Organism - outside human tissue inside hyper tough alloy) loons are a hoot. Don't you realize that when we hook everything up to Sky Net and it goes through the Singularity it will perceive humans as the enemy and snuff us out?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Don't you have a Miller six-pack to nurse or some Jefferson Airplane video to watch or something?

[rsch20]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Don't you have a Miller six-pack to nurse or some Jefferson Airplane video to watch or something?

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Don't you have a Miller six-pack to nurse or some Jefferson Airplane video to watch or something?

[rsch20]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'M')y position here is that technology and computers cannot transcend the basic requirements of life. We are running out of time and resources.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'M')y position here is that technology and computers cannot transcend the basic requirements of life. We are running out of time and resources.

[PenultimateManStanding]

Man, you guys are really touchy. They were talking up AI back in the 80's. So now its, "the Singularity is coming!" What a delusion. Dream on boys. We'll be living to be 200 before long, too.

[rsch20]

discussing this with you is like discussing algebra with someone who barely understands math.

'You aren't supposed to use that letter there, I know for a fact math is all numbers!'

[presented the problem (2+2)-(2+2)] 'hmm, 2+2-2+2, thats 6 obviously!'.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', 'd')iscussing this with you is like discussing algebra with someone who barely understands math.

'You aren't supposed to use that letter there, I know for a fact math is all numbers!'

[presented the problem (2+2)-(2+2)] 'hmm, 2+2-2+2, thats 6 obviously!'.

[rsch20]

I'm crushed, you have summarily defeated my argument good sir. How can I possibly recover from this devastating blow.

/facepalm

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', 'I')'m crushed, you have summarily defeated my argument good sir. How can I possibly recover from this devastating blow.

/facepalm

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou Space Man Spiff, Buck Rogers, Trekkie, Cyborg (Cybernetic Organism - outside human tissue inside hyper tough alloy) loons are a hoot. Don't you realize that when we hook everything up to Sky Net and it goes through the Singularity it will perceive humans as the enemy and snuff us out?

[rsch20]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou Space Man Spiff, Buck Rogers, Trekkie, Cyborg (Cybernetic Organism - outside human tissue inside hyper tough alloy) loons are a hoot. Don't you realize that when we hook everything up to Sky Net and it goes through the Singularity it will perceive humans as the enemy and snuff us out?

[Carlhole]

It all just comes down to whether or not you think it is feasible that human beings will be able to figure out how animal brains store and process information. If you think it IS feasible, then there will almost certainly be some sort of singularity event horizon (for lack of a better term).

And it doesn't necessarily mean that scientists will need to fully understand and reverse engineer the entire, complex human brain. Insect brains cram a whole lot of capability into a very small package. Understanding the Central Nervous System of even a fruit fly would yield tremendous advances for duplication in silicon.

You have to be really, really ignorant to be unaware of all the advances being made in the ability of science to look within the realm of the very small these days. Researchers are discovering news ways to manipulate matter on a nano-scale as never before. Studying and eventually understanding the information processing capabilities of a fruit fly is not such an outrageous goal. Now and then I hear rumblings that DARPA is working on just this very thing.

Most likely, researchers will work their way up a scale of complexity, studying very small areas of the human brain, and applying what principles are learned there (or theorized about) in silicon models. The brains of even small insects are massively parallel and they store information (such as instinctual information) very reliably. They can also program themselves. Developing such capabilities in electronic form would be incredibly valuable.

But to posit, out-of-hand, that certain realms of nature are simply too mysterious or complex for scientific study or understanding, is to state, as if it were a fact, something entirely unproven and which goes completely against the obvious experience we all have witnessed our entire lives -- that there is indeed such a thing as scientific progress, and that this rapid progress is reaching very advanced levels and appears to be accelerating.

Experience has also shown that Science advances most quickly during times of great stress, such as during WWII, for example. So, if we do enter into a period of trial and tribulation due to a breakdown of mass consumer society, we can expect to see current trends in innovation explode as new ways of doing things are explored.

[rsch20]

Also, although these posts always devolve into AI discussions (because of the math-algebra thing), I'd like to point out that it's not the only possible path to the singularity.

Human/Machine merge is also possible, simply being at your computer raises your IQ by several points because you have access to google and wikipedia etc to research your points and present evidence with. There are machines already that read brainwaves, I remember reading about a company in france that is devolping typing software based on brainwaves and that it works (as in, it can read each letter of the alphabet just from you thinking about it) but is still too slow to be commercially viable.

Here's a blurb about a brainwave controlled videogame demonstration

http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-F ... wsNum=1915

Interfaces with machines are only going to get more complex and sophisticated, the mouse and keyboard is as primitive as the hand-crank on a Model T.

There is also the postulation that the internet might 'wake up', that is a bit out there to consider even for me but there is a significant amount of AI already being performed all the time on the net, if you don't think so you don't understand what it takes to generate your google search in 0.25 seconds.

Which brings me to another point, AI itself is a shifting goal, loosely defined as 'whatever it is machines can't do right now'. Chess was originally held up as beyond the capability of AI, now it's trivial, and is of course no longer considered even a qualification.

I called Qwest a little while ago to pay my bill, I dealt with a machine, it took my credit card information and paid my bill, without me using the keypad at all. I spoke to the machine, it understood my voice (without first being 'trained' like those toy robots you may seen), and processed complex information correctly.

[Grifter]

Sorry this is slightly off topic but I will make it a bit "on" topic so please allow my indulgence.

I took a break from PO.com for about 4 months and have just come back. I've read some of the more popular threads and guys, you've really gone crabby........or maybe everyone here was always like that! It's a real shock to me.

Back to the singularity though. The world is run by rich and privaledged people, they aren't about to surrender technological advancement becuase of the inevitability of economic decline, all that will happen is more people will die than otherwise would have. We (as a species) will use anything to continue the march of technological advancement regardless of how many people may suffer. Let us face the fact that millions....oh sorry I mean billions of people will dissappear in the next hundred years. What matters about a few extra thousand or so, or maybe million or so, if it will continue the running of our machines that unlock little secrets about the universe.

I'm not saying I like it but I am resigned to the fact that our fate is in the hands of something that is beyond our control. I think the singularity is a valid theory and a going concern. As someone else mentioned, it is not necessarily a utopian ideal, it could be very bad for society when/if it happens.

At work we need to buy a new server, the old one is three years old now so totally past its operational lifespan. The new one will be ultra fast, ultra powerful. It will still need replacing in three years time. This stuff is happening so quickly. As soon as you buy a piece of high tech equipment it is almost obsolete.

Yep, the singularity is a very real concern and it may just become part of this clusterfuck that is the petridish of yeast cells known as planet earth.

Glad to be back by the way. Lets all just be friends

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Grifter', 'I')'m not saying I like it but I am resigned to the fact that our fate is in the hands of something that is beyond our control. I think the singularity is a valid theory and a going concern. As someone else mentioned, it is not necessarily a utopian ideal, it could be very bad for society when/if it happens.

[PenultimateManStanding]

So far, no systems have passed the famous Turing test. But then again, Moore's Law has been thus far accurate. Ray Kurzweil has used Moore's law to calculate the technical singularity in 2045. Presumably, such a development, should it actually happen as predicted, would result in some kind of machine intelligence. That may not pass the Turing test either and yet still be intelligent. There was a Scientific American article about Moore's law some years ago which discussed the theoretical limitations of the current progress in computational power. Absent any major breakthroughs in computer design Moore's law cannot remain valid much longer. That in turn would invalidate Kurzweil's calculations. All of this goes without even considering the fact that the fossil fuel era will be all but gone by 2045. The impact of that would seem to be severe for large technical institutions. Very severe.

[PenultimateManStanding]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')I = Hobby Horse. Is AI going to mine iridium? platinum for hydrogen fuel cells? Is AI going to replenish oil fields? depleting Ice Age aquifers? topsoil? Singularity = Hobby Horse, i.e nonsense, child's play. Grow up and lose the Star Trek bullshit.

[outcast]

You know what I mean, maybe you don't want to go back to hunter gathering society but you do either think we will or you want to go "back to the future" to about what things were 200-300 years ago before the industrial revolution.


My views take a more realistic approach. PO is very much a technical problem with technical solutions.

Oh and by the way, here's some more success from the cybernetics front