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The Singularity University

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Narz » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 14:26:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')oderators, can you please move the off-topic to HOF?

Thanks.

:roll: Why do you want to sabotage Carl's thread?
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby rsch20 » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 18:21:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')oderators, can you please move the off-topic to HOF?

Thanks.

:roll: Why do you want to sabotage Carl's thread?


Pretty sure ludi meant for the off-topic parts of the thread to be moved not the whole thing.

I read (most of) the comments on that wired article and it was a wall of terminator fantasies and anthropomorphic projection.

To me it's another example of how flawed we are, discussing things while having large chunks of needed information missing. I didn't see a single comment that showed an awareness of game theory or the difference between an intelligence that evolves from one that is designed. (as an evolved intelligence, we are burdened with things like out-group thinking, fight or flight response etc, a designed intelligence is unlikely to be 'angry' or 'jealous', these are things we project).

Basically it seems that in order to have a conversation with people on some topics (like the singularity, and peak oil) you first need to give them a college level course on the subject. Computers on the other hand do not suffer from that problem, portability of information is one of it's strengths. Take a program from one computer, copy it to another and voila, it 'knows' the same information, Imagine being able to 'discuss' a topic the way that Trinity learns to fly a helicopter in the Matrix. (Movies are a bad way to think about this stuff as they skew your perceptions of it but that one gets the point accross I think).
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 21:09:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '
')That's what all "new technology" is. Were you intending to be ironic?


No, I expressed myself poorly.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'H')mm, so some of their projects appear frivolous to you. God forbid! You don't have any frivolous hobbies or projects?


Yes, most of my activities are frivolous. I don't usually post about them.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'W')hat's Ludi stand for then? Also, there's a third option (try to remain calm & poised or let your emotions channel your energy).


Ludi stands for "ludicrous" because I think I am.

ludicrous
One entry found.

Main Entry:
lu·di·crous
Pronunciation:
\ˈlü-də-krəs\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin ludicrus, from ludus play, sport; perhaps akin to Greek loidoros abusive
Date:
1712
1 : amusing or laughable through obvious absurdity, incongruity, exaggeration, or eccentricity
2 : meriting derisive laughter or scorn as absurdly inept, false, or foolish

It's almost impossible for me to "remain calm and poised," as I become too emotionally involved in these conversations. Like, insanely upset over them so I have to take a sedative. Yes, I am mentally ill and under treatment.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'Y')ou seem to be against technology you deem as unsustainable or "unnatural" (plastic, metal stuff I guess you'd call it) and to save a major disdain for people who you deem are stuck in the old paradigm (making a "smart fridge" for example)


I do not vocally or loudly support unsustainable technology, though I do use it myself. I never use the word "unnatural" if I can help it.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'D')on't get me wrong Ludi, I like you & I think you have a good heart, I just think you alienate a lot of intelligent people by being so judgmental over any use of technology you deem frivolous.


I will endeavor not to alienate people from here on. To this end, I will attempt to refrain from posting unless directly addressed.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', ' ')Even (ironically) the neo-primitivist movement would be nothing without the Internet. :lol:

I am not a neo-primitivist.

I hope that covers all your points sufficiently.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 21:11:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'M')oderators, can you please move the off-topic to HOF?

Thanks.

:roll: Why do you want to sabotage Carl's thread?


Pretty sure ludi meant for the off-topic parts of the thread to be moved not the whole thing.



Yes, just the posts discussing me and my off-topic posts. I do not want to sabotage Carlhole's thread. I have already asked people to address criticism of me in the HOF rather than in this thread.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Narz » Mon 09 Feb 2009, 22:32:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Yes, most of my activities are frivolous. I don't usually post about them.

Why not? Maybe you should, I think you need to go easier on yourself & on others.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '
')Ludi stands for "ludicrous" because I think I am.

I do not vocally or loudly support unsustainable technology, though I do use it myself. I never use the word "unnatural" if I can help it.

I think it's somewhat unfair to lump in all of MIT's activity when "smart-fridge technology".


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', 'D')on't get me wrong Ludi, I like you & I think you have a good heart, I just think you alienate a lot of intelligent people by being so judgmental over any use of technology you deem frivolous.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') will endeavor not to alienate people from here on. To this end, I will attempt to refrain from posting unless directly addressed.

I really don't think that's necessary. Now you're going to extremes just cause you think people are mad at you (or you're mad at yourself or something). No one's telling you to "get lost", I've seen plenty of people tell others to get lost & I've told many people that often the years (not on this forum much) but I've never seen anyone tell you to get lost & rightly they shouldn't.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', ' ')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', ' ')Even (ironically) the neo-primitivist movement would be nothing without the Internet. :lol:

I am not a neo-primitivist.
I know, I was just making a point.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') hope that covers all your points sufficiently.
NO! I DEMAND MORE LUDI! :wink:
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby outcast » Tue 10 Feb 2009, 01:04:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')You seem to be against technology you deem as unsustainable or "unnatural" (plastic, metal stuff I guess you'd call it) and to save a major disdain for people who you deem are stuck in the old paradigm (making a "smart fridge" for example).



Part of it is that she can't see past what the technology is currently used for. Take for example a smart fridge, such things as advanced power management, automated inventory, and image processing tech is this being developed for it could, using the experience gained be used for other applications.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')ognitive Computing Project Aims to Reverse-Engineer the Mind


I think when memristors become more widely available it will be much easier to emulate the mind through hardware.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Carlhole » Tue 10 Feb 2009, 15:26:50

When Man & Machine Merge

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KurzweilAI.net', 'R')olling Stone contributor David Kushner's interview with "the world's scariest techno prophet," Ray Kurzweil, "When Man & Machine Merge" appears in the February 19 issue, now on newsstands.


The article isn't available online as yet.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby bodigami » Tue 10 Feb 2009, 21:06:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'P')lease tell me federal tax dollars are not funding this university on the NASA campus.

As for the "singularity.." as far as it relates to computing (that is, the point at which artificial intelligence becomes self-aware), it is an inevitability. Moore's Law on processing power has held up for what? 30, 40, 50 years now?


It is far from an inevitability. The density of transistors doesn't help program AI. In fact, "strong" AI hasn't developed much in the last decades.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Dezakin » Tue 10 Feb 2009, 22:27:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('bodinagamin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'P')lease tell me federal tax dollars are not funding this university on the NASA campus.

As for the "singularity.." as far as it relates to computing (that is, the point at which artificial intelligence becomes self-aware), it is an inevitability. Moore's Law on processing power has held up for what? 30, 40, 50 years now?


It is far from an inevitability. The density of transistors doesn't help program AI. In fact, "strong" AI hasn't developed much in the last decades.

Thats just not true. While AI based in symbolic logic is fairly mature for a fairly small set of applications (theorem proving in mathematics) it does continue to advance. But more advances are continuing to occur.

For instance, computational neuroscience has made huge advances over the past several decades. We've done full neurological simulation of C. elegans in software, and today we do full simulation of mammilian neocortical columns. It will be several more decades before we fully understand the structure necissary for doing real time simulation of human brains, and likely brain uploading is more decades out, so the likelyhood of singularity cultists finding immortality in a box is slim unless we can reconstruct the neurological structures from the frozen mess of skulls soaked in liquid nitrogen.

But its obviously inevitable that we will be able to replicate biologically realistic brains in software. After that, the world becomes a decidedly different place. And biological simulation is only the most obvious avenue to artificial intelligence being pursued.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Tue 10 Feb 2009, 23:01:03

AI = Hobby Horse. Is AI going to mine iridium? platinum for hydrogen fuel cells? Is AI going to replenish oil fields? depleting Ice Age aquifers? topsoil? Singularity = Hobby Horse, i.e nonsense, child's play. Grow up and lose the Star Trek bullshit.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby outcast » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 00:13:17

Actually an AI can help develop systems to solve all of those problems. Have you ever played the game "Deus Ex"?
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby rsch20 » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 00:20:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')I = Hobby Horse. Is AI going to mine iridium? platinum for hydrogen fuel cells? Is AI going to replenish oil fields? depleting Ice Age aquifers? topsoil? Singularity = Hobby Horse, i.e nonsense, child's play. Grow up and lose the Star Trek bullshit.



sorry dude, you are wrong. and acting superior does not magically make you right.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 00:27:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')I = Hobby Horse. Is AI going to mine iridium? platinum for hydrogen fuel cells? Is AI going to replenish oil fields? depleting Ice Age aquifers? topsoil? Singularity = Hobby Horse, i.e nonsense, child's play. Grow up and lose the Star Trek bullshit.



sorry dude, you are wrong. and acting superior does not magically make you right.
Ah, so AI is going to mine iridium. AI is going to replenish aquifers. AI is going to replenish oil fields. No magic about it. No iridium, no LCD screens or solar panels. Did I get the impression somewhere that you are a young MIT student? It figures. The superiority/inferiority deal is a concern to young minds trying to figure their place in the pecking order. When you get old it is seen to be irrelevant. I'd like to see some brilliant mind put back that 20 feet of vibrant topsoil full of worms and microbes and soil critters that used to be there.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Sixstrings » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 03:00:47

Here's an idea..

Stop yip-yapping about all the swell things AI can do. When you've gone and made an AI and it's solved the worlds problems, THEN get back to us. Until then, less talk more work.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby rsch20 » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 04:09:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')I = Hobby Horse. Is AI going to mine iridium? platinum for hydrogen fuel cells? Is AI going to replenish oil fields? depleting Ice Age aquifers? topsoil? Singularity = Hobby Horse, i.e nonsense, child's play. Grow up and lose the Star Trek bullshit.



sorry dude, you are wrong. and acting superior does not magically make you right.
Ah, so AI is going to mine iridium. AI is going to replenish aquifers. AI is going to replenish oil fields. No magic about it. No iridium, no LCD screens or solar panels. Did I get the impression somewhere that you are a young MIT student? It figures. The superiority/inferiority deal is a concern to young minds trying to figure their place in the pecking order. When you get old it is seen to be irrelevant. I'd like to see some brilliant mind put back that 20 feet of vibrant topsoil full of worms and microbes and soil critters that used to be there.


your argument only demonstrates how dumb you are. go drink some prunejuice old man.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ere's an idea..

Stop yip-yapping about all the swell things AI can do. When you've gone and made an AI and it's solved the worlds problems, THEN get back to us. Until then, less talk more work.


Here's an idea.

Stop yip-yapping about all the horrible things PO can do. When we've actually run out of oil, Then get back to us. Until then, less talk more work.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby outcast » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 06:02:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')I = Hobby Horse. Is AI going to mine iridium? platinum for hydrogen fuel cells? Is AI going to replenish oil fields? depleting Ice Age aquifers? topsoil? Singularity = Hobby Horse, i.e nonsense, child's play. Grow up and lose the Star Trek bullshit.



sorry dude, you are wrong. and acting superior does not magically make you right.
Ah, so AI is going to mine iridium. AI is going to replenish aquifers. AI is going to replenish oil fields. No magic about it. No iridium, no LCD screens or solar panels. Did I get the impression somewhere that you are a young MIT student? It figures. The superiority/inferiority deal is a concern to young minds trying to figure their place in the pecking order. When you get old it is seen to be irrelevant. I'd like to see some brilliant mind put back that 20 feet of vibrant topsoil full of worms and microbes and soil critters that used to be there.



neo-primitivism at it's finest.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Dezakin » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 08:57:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rsch20', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'A')I = Hobby Horse. Is AI going to mine iridium? platinum for hydrogen fuel cells? Is AI going to replenish oil fields? depleting Ice Age aquifers? topsoil? Singularity = Hobby Horse, i.e nonsense, child's play. Grow up and lose the Star Trek bullshit.



sorry dude, you are wrong. and acting superior does not magically make you right.
Ah, so AI is going to mine iridium.

I don't see why not. Mining is largely automated as is. Most mining machinery is allready operated by AI.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')I is going to replenish aquifers. AI is going to replenish oil fields.

Why would it bother with either one of those things?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')o magic about it. No iridium, no LCD screens or solar panels. Did I get the impression somewhere that you are a young MIT student? It figures. The superiority/inferiority deal is a concern to young minds trying to figure their place in the pecking order. When you get old it is seen to be irrelevant. I'd like to see some brilliant mind put back that 20 feet of vibrant topsoil full of worms and microbes and soil critters that used to be there.
I'm not sure why AI would care at all about topsoil, except perhaps to render it into more computational substrate. To a civilization dominated by AI, topsoil is just so much rubbish to be tossed into matter converters.

It doesn't paint a pretty picture for humanity, but the future has little use for humanity as we know it.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby outcast » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 10:20:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t doesn't paint a pretty picture for humanity, but the future has little use for humanity as we know it.



Which is why we evolve. Cybernetics is the way of the future, and it will happen.
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 13:31:56

You Space Man Spiff, Buck Rogers, Trekkie, Cyborg (Cybernetic Organism - outside human tissue inside hyper tough alloy) loons are a hoot. Don't you realize that when we hook everything up to Sky Net and it goes through the Singularity it will perceive humans as the enemy and snuff us out? :? :shock:
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Re: The Singularity University

Unread postby Carlhole » Wed 11 Feb 2009, 14:18:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', 'Y')ou Space Man Spiff, Buck Rogers, Trekkie, Cyborg (Cybernetic Organism - outside human tissue inside hyper tough alloy) loons are a hoot. Don't you realize that when we hook everything up to Sky Net and it goes through the Singularity it will perceive humans as the enemy and snuff us out? :? :shock:


We all heard you the first time.

If you don't like the subject of the thread, go somewhere else. Lord knows, you post all sorts of trivial crap and no one gives you a hard time for it.

But, as for The Singularity, there are regular conferences, books, a film coming, the the IEEE devoted a whole issue of its publication to it (positively), Rolling Stone has a feature on it currently. There are science articles featuring all sorts of developments in AI appearing everyday...

Why do you want to stifle discussion of something that has plenty of mainstream currency?

It's kind of irritating to have to read some misinformed old fart interject "Bullshit!" every few posts for no other reason than to interject the same thing again and again, without adding anything to the discussion.

Don't you have a Miller six-pack to nurse or some Jefferson Airplane video to watch or something?
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