[Revi]

Here in Maine I think the eye of the storm has passed over us. We're into winter now. People in my neighborhood were using 5 gallon cans to get off road diesel to heat their houses a month ago. Now they'll be using one of them a day. We have an unemployment rate way over 10% in my county, officially.

We're losing population.

We are back into the unrelenting recession again here.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')We're losing population.

[outcast]

The northern states have been losing population for some time to the sunbelt states.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('outcast', 'T')he northern states have been losing population for some time to the sunbelt states.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CarlosFerreira', 'T')he costs are paid, but not necessarily on time. The rub here is that we haven't been paying the costs yet. There is temporal dimension to the problem.

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')We're losing population.

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', 'I') don't disagree that we will pay more, but I disagree w/ the statement that we haven't been paying, because we clearly have via pollution, costs in the ME, etc... I also disagree w/ a comparison to something like a bill, since externalities don't wait for us. They will cost us whatever off whenever they show up.

It's not that we haven't been paying. It's that we have been paying and will continue to pay.

[MonteQuest]

"Like a passing hurricane, this “eye of the storm” in gas and oil prices is setting us up for an even more painful energy crisis in the very near future. We must consider that, should oil prices and demand remain low for an extended period, new investment in oil production — not to mention renewables — will fall to such an extent that, with worldwide depletion of existing fields at 6.7 percent a year, there simply will not be enough new oil, or oil replacement energy, to power an economic recovery."

I wrote that in my initial post 7 years ago. While it was geared for that moment in time, it is still a timely musing. It appears the eye wall is still a few years off with the residual hold-out from the glut, but the strength of the hurricane winds has been elevated to a Cat-off-the charts. Low oil prices not only inhibit exploration and production, but they increase demand, as we all well know. When these two forces meet in an ever-declining EROEI world, the winds of change will blow hard....but in what direction?

[ennui2]

People were predicting that unconventional wouldn't save us and yet the fracking boom seemed to emerge within a couple years. So I don't really buy into the narrative of doom due to oil development latency. As long as there's oil to be drilled, it will be drilled, regardless of above-ground factors.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', 'P')eople were predicting that unconventional wouldn't save us and yet the fracking boom seemed to emerge within a couple years. So I don't really buy into the narrative of doom due to oil development latency. As long as there's oil to be drilled, it will be drilled, regardless of above-ground factors.

[Lore]

Over the last ten years peak oil has really evolved, at least for me, as a metaphor for resource depletion and general environmental degradation. It should be by now pretty plain to see by everybody that humans will burn whatever carbon producing resource is left to extend their presence on the planet from oil to wood. Up until the time they can no longer do so.

The fast crashers have long vacated this joint and for good reason. None of us really know where the bottom of the barrel is at.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'T')he fast crashers have long vacated this joint and for good reason. None of us really know where the bottom of the barrel is at.

[Lore]

That's the problem, it's a shell game that keeps everybody guessing. The con man is counting on your denial and belief that there really is a pea that still exists under one of the shells.

[Rod_Cloutier]

Montequest- where have you been in your absence. The rest of us are interested in hearing your story?

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Rod_Cloutier', 'M')ontequest- where have you been in your absence. The rest of us are interested in hearing your story?

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', '
')
When the EROEI <1 it doesn't make sense to not cap the well. Sure, you could use some other energy source to pump, but it won't defeat the physics involved. If you drill anyway, regardless of above ground factors, is when a fool and somebodies' money are soon parted.

[SeaGypsy]

My recall when Monty started here was in my early lurking period, prompting drastic rethink particularly regarding population reduction as an urgent necessity. Part of the philosophy was about society at large facing up to some core truths about population & resources. In the years since, the lies & obfuscation have only gotten worse. Bill Gates hands out condoms while the MIC hands out war implements & most of the world gets on with growth, of population, of consumption. If anything there appears less likelihood than ever of reality entering the global politic.

It is the lack of truth & sanity forcing us back to our micro world, the only one we have any real power to control. The big picture is screwed. We can deny it, or pretend we are really trying to fix it, but our participation is insignificant to the outcome either way- the socioeconomic momentum is too great.

We are headed off Hubberts cliff & it is just a matter of when. We are led by a bunch of total lunatics whose demise will parallel most of the rest of us with them.

I have given up on expecting truth or sanity to eventually prevail in society. Just trying to keep my own little world OK for as long as possible is about it.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', ' ')If you used some other energy source to pump a low production well, say hydro power or wood fired steam, you would be converting that power source into liquid crude. No matter how much the hydro power or steam power cost it could not be used to fly a jet plane where the crude from the well could. If National defense depends on the jet fuel and it most likely will then you will use any means necessary to fill their tanks and that equation will determine when the wells get shut off and capped.

[ralfy]

One might consider not just global production but production per capita. This puts to question any idea of a "boom."

This might also explain why the tragedy of the commons was also seen in light of population growth.