[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ebyss', 'I') suggest medical books if people want to learn about sex...

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Part of the problem is that ethics don't cover any of what is modern reality. or any of what goes on in this day and age. If this were the case catholics wouldn't have STD or AIDS. but like it or not some do.

You can argue that means they aren't proper catholics all you want but it still won't change the fact that they and many others do consider them to be catholic.

It won't change the fact that men (who do consider themselves to be pious worshippers) commit adultry with prostitutes then take that disease home to their loving wives, then go back to church and receive absolution. But who cares aobut the women, they are just chattle anyway.

And it still doesn't address the issue of POPES who advocate having children in a situation where they will be exposed to starvation, deprivation and disease. It is not a socially responsible position for the head of any religion who professes to be a moral authority to maintain.

[Geology_Guy]

Child-you will grow up poor and diseased and unloved-trust me I can see the future. You cannot hope for anything better-don't even try to argue the point.

Therefore I sentence you to death. Don't worry it's for your own good and you will feel better after.

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')herefore I sentence you to death. Don't worry it's for your own good and you will feel better after.

[Geology_Guy]

Wow, Thats a little harsh.

I wish you only the best.

Don't me so quick to judge.

Children are the most defensless among us and might deserve protection before and after they are born. Life is meant to be lived, not spent in hate filled commments.

[Antimatter]

I get the feeling lorenzo is playing devil's advocate here.

[CarnbY]

lorenzo: you said that if everyone were perfect catholics then there would be no aids and everything would be just wonderful. Well, if everyone were intelligent, moral human beings and relied on their own brains there would be no need for catholicism or other religious mumbo-jumbo either. Your idea of a catholic life is an artificial construct that has no bearing in reality, and by pushing your 'morals' on other people you only promote hate and suffering. There are many sound ideas and principles in the bible, but the catholic church constantly focuses on irrelevant pieces of ritual and rules, and condemns people who disagree with these.
It is in any way useless to argue with you, since from your standpoint every catholic is perfect, and anyone who is not perfect is not a catholic.

[Teclo]

I am a heretic with a view to the darker side of life

I think the church is trying to re-assert itself due to some of the failings of the current direction we were going in
But it will be an evil day that we all have to believe one catholic faith again (or one christian faith) - the forces of ignorance would take away our freedom of thought and already they are trying to

These people never liked democracy and because capitalism is failing will try and blame democracy as well, ignoring the many good things it has brought to our world. When the church was in charge it didn't treat people equally, nor did it set the slaves free, nor did it allow freedom of thought, instead we had a dark age

If I was more optimistic I would imagine that we could enter a more spiritual age, of tolerance
But I have watched the evangelist crusadors and the catholic political organisation and they show few signs that they will be very inclusive

Prove me wrong, but I think the new pope will be a hard liner and they will launch some kind of attack on our freedoms

Teclo

[Antimatter]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'W')hat we now need is a passport indicating whether you are an immune European; so you know when you can enjoy sex without that annoying condom!

[linlithgowoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'L')ove and marriage have little to do with each other

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CarnbY', ' ')Well, if everyone were intelligent, moral human beings and relied on their own brains there would be no need for catholicism or other religious mumbo-jumbo either.

[khebab]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Antimatter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'W')hat we now need is a passport indicating whether you are an immune European; so you know when you can enjoy sex without that annoying condom!

[lorenzo]

What can I say?

The practise of changing identities in order to stimulate a debate is a well established Catholic strategy.


When the Holy Father was negotiating with dictator Jaruzelski about meeting Lech Walesa, He also used all kinds of tricks.

[Free]

My guess is that the new pope will have two important aspects:

1. He will be of the conservative wing of the church.

2. He will come from a third world country.

The first one will be eclipsed by the second one: They will say, look, are'nt we progressive? The new pope is from a third world country! While at the same time pushing very hard for the conservative agenda.

Has anybody heard of a cardinal with the name Juan Luis Cipriani Thorne? (You couldn't think of a better name, could you? It's like from a horror novel...)
Maybe he will be the next pope. I say so because he is from Opus Dei, a sect within the church which have grabbed very much power under the last pope. They are the Jesuites of the 21st century, the soldiers of god.

And for the love of conspiracy theories: He became priest in 1977. Bishop in 1988. Archbishop of Lima in 1999. (666!) He is the antichrist!

(How do you like my new tin foil hat?)

[The_Virginian]

My vote is for Gary Colman.

[threadbear]

Lorenzo! Beauty!!!

I tied my brain in a knot trying to figure out how to respond, to your Catholic persona. I was going to express sympathy and empathy for some of your anti-modern ideas, and then I was going to try to point you in the Sufi direction, if you needed an emotionally charged, satisfying but archaic experience. Man, you had me worried.

There's nothing remotely loving about the institutional hierarchic players within the Catholic church. They are one of the strongest focal points of evil, in the world. They leave a trail of moral slime wherever they've been, preaching passivity to indigineous people, as their lands are stolen, their women raped and their children killed by colonizing forces. They are NEVER on the compassionate side of the divide. They have supported fascism, hidden pedophilia, withheld criticism of the Nazis during the holocaust, and then helped shelter SS from prosecution by being active participants in the intelligence agencies, Project Paperclip, in the post war period.

And people have the nerve to turn to this "higher moral authority" because of STD's? The cardinals surrounding the pope are gonnhorhea in human form. The pope, as a figurehead, was chosen because he was anti-Communist and therefore could be counted on to default to a pro-fascist stance that supported the status quo. He, no doubt, has some fabulous characteristics as a human being, but firing all of the priests who were encouraging the peasants to stand up for themselves in Latin America, in the seventies, eighties and early nineties, calls the entirety of his personality and his personal cosmology into question.

Some of the most loving people I know are Catholics, and strong ones, but they all share something in common. Their desire to prostate themselves before a diety, golden retriever style, outweighs their drive for justice, reason and greater compassion. Their kindness, then, is entirely compromised. These are the type of people who allowed their kids to have sleepovers with priests, without any discomfort. Had they not been so emotionall all accepting and unquestioning, much of the abuse wouldn't have happened.

God, gave us scepticism, reason, logic, to counter blind emotionalism. I suggest "good" Catholics use it.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Free', '
')The first one will be eclipsed by the second one: They will say, look, are'nt we progressive? The new pope is from a third world country! While at the same time pushing very hard for the conservative agenda.

[BabyPeanut]

Missing option:

Baby Peanut as "Pope Sensible the First" - the first Pope to give out free birth control devices.

[Free]

Yes but it's clear what this special kind of catholic conservatism means - no condoms, no abortions, no women's rights, gays to the KZ.

Yes there will even be africans who tell you that AIDS doesn't come from sexual contacts but from some weird western conspiracy, or evil spirits, and all you need to do is to say your prayers and be a christian. This sort of evil disinformation is enforced by the catholic church and is a CRIME. Some poor peasants in the african hinterland can't help it if they don't understand the workings of a virus, they don't have a chance to know it. But we have the responsibility to act responsible and tell them the truth.

The church has always been a profiteer of poverty, war, desaster, hopelessness. It's a parasite. A priest is a parasite by definition. Since thousands of years he's the one who promised the people the medicine of the diseases he invented. All they had to do is to feed him, adore him, and allow him to have his dirty secrets.

So yes you shouldn't call it conservatism, but destructionism.

And for hypocrisy: It's funny that people who claim to be "pure" and not to have sexual promiscuity turn out to be the most perverted of them all. It doesn't matter if it is priests that turn out to be pedophiles, or muslims or american protestants who turn to either homosexuality (which is not pervert, but they claim it to be), or anal or oral sex because they want to remain "virgin" until marriage. How fu**ed up can you be!

A puritan is somebody who's greatest fear is that somebody, somewhere is just having fun.

[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '
')passivity to indigineous people