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What we are facing soon

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Armageddon » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:26:28

I will do some digging ( no pun intended ) , and find this book I read where scientists said , " we can't understand how humans appear at a certain level in the fossil record, and the deeper we dig, the less bare it is . "

If a specie changes from one to another, the fossil records would show overwhelming support for this. Not taking a skull and drawing animated pictures trying to convince others. Take current mankind for example. Our fossil record would be enormous, and we haven't changed in 6,000 years. Hell, in 6,000 years we have developed the entire earth into a huge civilized society. But before that, they were walking the earth for millions of years butt ass naked throwing spears at animals ? lol.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Armageddon » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:27:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'L')udi nice to see you back!

Difficult to post seriously at the moment as I was hoping that Armi was an option when my gorgeous wife throws me out for Peak Oil addiction!

Can't believe that a god fearing christian is actually a transexual.



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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby eastbay » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:29:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', 'I') will do some digging ( no pun intended ) , and find this book I read where scientists said , " we can't understand how humans appear at a certain level in the fossil record, and the deeper we dig, the less bare it is . "

If a specie changes from one to another, the fossil records would show overwhelming support for this. Not taking a skull and drawing animated pictures trying to convince others. Take current mankind for example. Our fossil record would be enormous, and we haven't changed in 6,000 years. Hell, in 6,000 years we have developed the entire earth into a huge civilized society. But before that, they were walking the earth for millions of years butt ass naked throwing spears at animals ? lol.



Speak for yourself. My ancestors were shooting arrows at animals. And wearing the fur scraped from 'em. :)
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Quinny » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:29:43

So it's not you?

Why do you use that then?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'L')udi nice to see you back!

Difficult to post seriously at the moment as I was hoping that Armi was an option when my gorgeous wife throws me out for Peak Oil addiction!

Can't believe that a god fearing christian is actually a transexual.



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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby idiom » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:41:20

What happened to all the DOOM. :(

Anyways, Gradual evolution has totally been abandoned, except by creationists and American High School teachers.

Everyone else has moved on to punctuated equilibrium, a form of evolution that convieniently leaves no fossil record due to the fossil record not supporting gradualism.

Beyond that the Bacterial phylogeny 'trees' are bloody stars. Because apparently they all evolved at the same time according to their DNA.

This is not to go anywhere near the shift to panspermia due to Geologists abandoning abiogenesis on Earth.

According to my Biology professors we still have no real idea about how Gram-Positive bacteria eat.

Why are inertia and gravity linked?

What makes cause and effect happen?

Seriously the Evolution/creation debate has so *little* science on either side.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:42:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '
')It proved my point. All of the examples above are daft. You can't have light without darkness or order without chaos or life without death or energy without gravity or up without down which means good and evil are the same or you could say neither exist.


Its true you cannot have one without the other, but that doesn't mean they are the same. There are two sides to a coin, they both belong to the existence that is the coin, but they are opposites. In the case of a coin, which side is Good and which side is Evil isn't very clear of course.

Out in the world of matter, you can't tell which side is Good and which side is Evil through observation either, because its all relative from this reference point. You can only tell from outside that reference point, from your Spirit. If you have no spirit, you can't tell the difference and are morally lost. Quite a serious and tangible problem for many Americans who have grown up in a morally bankrupt culture that placed value on wealth and not in the spirit.

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Yes. 'Good' and 'Evil' are concepts. Nothing more. They are not solid. One mans meat is another mans murder


Exactly the problem I explained above. You are a relativist, because there is no moral center to what you understand about the world. There is in fact a difference, but you have to grasp hold of the spirit to understand the difference. You clearly are unable to do this. You'll have to find this on your own terms, hopefully before you die.

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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Quinny » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:45:57

We're all matter.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:47:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', '
')
If a specie changes from one to another, the fossil records would show overwhelming support for this.


It does, you just don't accept the evidence. But that's your problem, not the problem of the fossil record. Take some paleontology courses, don't expect to be able to understand this huge subject by glancing at a couple web pages.

You may even be expecting to see something paleontologists never claim, like a fish changing into a bird, or something. God knows what you believe paleontology actually claims!

some discussion of fossil camelids/giraffe
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby Ludi » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:51:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('idiom', '
')Everyone else has moved on to punctuated equilibrium, a form of evolution that convieniently leaves no fossil record due to the fossil record not supporting gradualism.


That's not true, there's still debate. Not everyone accepts Gould's theory. Besides, punctuated equilibrium expands on the theory of gradualism, it doesn't eliminate it. You don't need to"believe" in one or the other.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby idiom » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 19:56:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ot everyone accepts Gould's theory.


Lol @ fossilized old holdouts. Everytime I try to explain time dilation to my father he says "I refuse to believe that! It doesn't make sense".
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Thu 04 Dec 2008, 20:24:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'W')e're all matter.


That isn't the point in dispute. The question would be whether matter is all we are? Does that matter? If you can demonstrate a point is immaterial and that matters to the outcome of an argument, doesn't that prover that immaterial things do matter? If it doesn't matter, why participate in such a discussion anyhow? If you are a relativist, none of the outcomes matter, Good or Evil are fundamentally neutral concepts. I'm not a relativist. I got no problem whatsoever distiguishing the difference between Good and Evil; or with Damning anyone at all to Everlasting Torment Burning in the Fires of Hell :-) That is because it does matter.

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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Sun 07 Dec 2008, 12:42:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'E')xactly the problem I explained above. You are a relativist, because there is no moral center to what you understand about the world. There is in fact a difference, but you have to grasp hold of the spirit to understand the difference. You clearly are unable to do this. You'll have to find this on your own terms, hopefully before you die.

Ah, See. You lost the argument by showing your ignorance and anger by getting personal. I touched a nerve. Better luck next time :)
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Sun 07 Dec 2008, 12:46:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'W')e're all matter.
That isn't the point in dispute. The question would be whether matter is all we are? Does that matter? If you can demonstrate a point is immaterial and that matters to the outcome of an argument, doesn't that prover that immaterial things do matter? If it doesn't matter, why participate in such a discussion anyhow? If you are a relativist, none of the outcomes matter, Good or Evil are fundamentally neutral concepts. I'm not a relativist. I got no problem whatsoever distiguishing the difference between Good and Evil; or with Damning anyone at all to Everlasting Torment Burning in the Fires of Hell :-) That is because it does matter.

No. Actually nothing really matters as you may find out before you die but mattering -aka worrying -aka fear, is something a lot of people like to busy themselves with until, as Lennon once said, 'they find there's no need'.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby errorist » Sun 07 Dec 2008, 19:19:45

There are key elements in theory pointing to cataclystic changes in the history of biosphere. What you get in the process is a historical snapshot in time of the cataclysm. Remember - biosphere itself consists of interlinked foodchains. Nothing is wasted. Pre-cataclysm foodsources were mainly consumed. Some information about them is very propably stored in the DNA-sequences of their successors.
For reference you might need to imagine 2000000 years old remains of a dump truck and driver in some submerged strip-mining site. Ever tried to breathe carbohydrates?

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')
Of coarse I believe in dinosaurs. Evolution ? You mean when they find a skull and say this is the missing link ? lol, nope. If evolution was real, where are all the fossils showing gradual change ? There are NONE. Mankind shows up on a certain level of earth, and beneath this level, the fossil remains are bare. This baffles scientists. Woldn't you think after millions of years there would be bones showing a giraffe's neck gradually getting taller ? But nope, we just have a giraffe. There should be millions and millions of fossils showing gradual change.
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Sun 07 Dec 2008, 19:49:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'W')e're all matter.
That isn't the point in dispute. The question would be whether matter is all we are? Does that matter? If you can demonstrate a point is immaterial and that matters to the outcome of an argument, doesn't that prover that immaterial things do matter? If it doesn't matter, why participate in such a discussion anyhow? If you are a relativist, none of the outcomes matter, Good or Evil are fundamentally neutral concepts. I'm not a relativist. I got no problem whatsoever distiguishing the difference between Good and Evil; or with Damning anyone at all to Everlasting Torment Burning in the Fires of Hell :-) That is because it does matter.

No. Actually nothing really matters as you may find out before you die but mattering -aka worrying -aka fear, is something a lot of people like to busy themselves with until, as Lennon once said, 'they find there's no need'.


This is a question of perspective. A Chicken and the Egg,Glass is Half Empty or Half Full question. You equate Mattering with Fear and Worry; I equate it with Hope and Courage. If nothing matters, there is no reason to fight of course. If everything matters, you have all the reason in the world to fight. To you, there is no difference between Good and Evil; I make value judgements on the difference which provides me all the reason I need to make a fight of it. Lennon may have written that "there is no need", but that would be pretty hypocritical of him since he also wrote "Working Class Hero".

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')As soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool
Till you're so fcuking crazy you can't follow their rules
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years
Then they expect you to pick a career
When you can't really function you're so full of fear
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV
And you think you're so clever and classless and free
But you're still fcuking peasants as far as I can see
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be

If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me


From my point of view, that is a FIGHT song. Maybe from your point of view it means it just doesn't matter?

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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 05:24:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', ' ')Lennon may have written that "there is no need", but that would be pretty hypocritical of him since he also wrote "Working Class Hero".
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')s soon as you're born they make you feel small
By giving you no time instead of it all
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all
A working class hero is something to be
A working class hero is something to be
--snip--
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
If you want to be a hero well just follow me
From my point of view, that is a FIGHT song. Maybe from your point of view it means it just doesn't matter?

So many Americans and a lot of Brits for that matter have never understood Lennon or The Beatles.
You must understand that 'Working Class Hero' is an ironic song. Lennon was very middle class (I've been to his home) and the song is an attack on the working class and their ignorance of how easily they follow the line, telling in the song lines -
'And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still fcuking peasants as far as I can see'
Lennon was far too intelligent for this to be a 'fight' song. 'Working Class Hero' was written in the same vein as 'Revolution' and an attack on the very people that without any analysis seems like support i.e ironic
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby ReverseEngineer » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 05:46:43

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('KevO', 'Y')ou must understand that working class hero is an ironic song. Lennon was very middle class (I've been to his home) and the song is an attack on the working class and their ignorance of how easily they follow the line. Lennon was far too intelligent for this to be a 'fight' song. 'Working Class Hero' was written in the same vein as 'Revolution' - ironic

The irony is apparent, particularly since he encourages said Working Class Hero to "just follow me". Follow him to do what? Become a cultural icon and mega rich Rock Star, so you don't have to be a Working Class Hero anymore? LOL.

Regardless of the irony apparent, its much like Clarkson's veiled sarcasm in his Times column. Clarkson doesn't really want to believe any of the crap he is reading or being told, and so he spouts it back out sprinkling in some sarcasm to make himself feel better about it all. A bit funny, but really mostly tragic stuff on many levels.

Lennon was quite a bit like Hunter Thompson, behind the irony was a man sickened by what he saw in the society he lived in. Compensated for by humour, by brilliance, and by in both cases an exaggerated lifestyle of the Acid Generation. You can make SENSE of what they both wrote, there is logic to it, but in it there is as much Evil as there is Good, and you have to make your value judgements on what is being said and the reasons behind it being said in this way.

You do not seem to make such value judgements, you specifically stated in the thread here that to you, Good and Evil are the same. You don't see a difference in how it plays out in the end, it doesn;t matter to you. It matters to me. It is a fundamental difference in how we view the world, you and I. Its not reconcilable at all. To you, my outlook is unsupportable by the reality you see, and what you perceive as the inevitible outcome of nothingness I gather. To me, your outlook makes relative all things and has no meaning as a result, and so you lack the something of the spirit in your thought process. That is just how you are, as I am how I am.

In the end, one of us will be right, the other wrong. There is no Middle Ground here, no compromise to be made. Neither of us will know the answer to that question in this world, no matter how many posts we write in response to each other. IMHO, we WILL know the answer when we reach the Great Beyond.
See You on the Other Side.

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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 06:19:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'Y')ou do not seem to make such value judgements, you specifically stated in the thread here that to you, Good and Evil are the same. You don't see a difference in how it plays out in the end, it doesn;t matter to you. It matters to me.

you missed my point. There is a difference between the concept of 'good' and the concept of 'evil' but it all depends on where you stand.
The difference is individual and personal or maybe culural and definitely conditioned.
We think we can all agree that to murder a child is evil yet Indians that have their daughters killed think it's a good thing
'Terrorists' see the west as intrinsically and inherently evil as do Christians really. We think we're the goodies.
The German people thought Hitler was doing a good thing exterminating the Jews etc etc
So there really is no actual 'good' or 'evil' in the way you'd like there to be and that, in my book, is a very good thing. Although it doesn't really matter. You're already dead, you just dont know it yet
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby KevO » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 06:25:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'I')n the end, one of us will be right, the other wrong. There is no Middle Ground here, no compromise to be made. Neither of us will know the answer to that question in this world, no matter how many posts we write in response to each other. IMHO, we WILL know the answer when we reach the Great Beyond. See You on the Other Side.

I missed that bit.
There is no right or wrong. They are concepts.
As for the great beyond, this is it.
The 'Middle Ground' is the whole ground
Wake up.
There is nowhere to reach. TherE never has been.
You've arrived.
W A K E Y W A K E Y
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Re: What we are facing soon

Unread postby EndOfGrowth » Tue 09 Dec 2008, 08:56:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Armageddon', 'S')orry, no link, came via e-mail. The Illuminati is gutting you as we speak and essentially they want you to DIE.

Yes, this is true, they want us to die, in order to leave room for nature according to these videos

Video part 1


Part 2

Have the Illuminati pulled the plug on credit? You decide :wink:
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