[wisconsin_cur]

Pops,

I am sympathetic to your position on Manna foods and think I understand its place. I would object to your universalist language.

If I am willing to be responsible for my own food decisions, should I be able to do that or should the government be able to come in and nanny me?

And if they decide to nanny on something that is personally important to you? Still follow the rules?

Always?

Or do you have a point where you join the dark side of the non-compliant?

And if your neighbors feel the same way, do you join with them, buy and sell with them or just go it alone?

They formed a community of like-minded individuals. Now if no one has gotten sick from this arrangement, where is the harm? And even if they had, do they have a right to eat what they see fit... or perhaps we should have sanctioned menus handed down from above to see that we in no way put our health at risk.

I can perceive a much healthier country that way after we have been saved from ourselves. Give us a generation and we will all feel revolted at the things Sally and Jim Hillbilly use to eat and all the things that it did to their arteries...

The best part is we can probably do it without passing another law one way or another; the regulatory power is already in place.

Don't question the rules; don't dare step outside of them. If you do you get what is coming to you!

Excuse me I have to go check my non-USDA compliant saurkraut... soon they might get rid of that loophole in the law that allows me to make it for myself and my family... I have small kids you know... can't be allowed to put them at risk with the foods that my great grandparents ate.

Remember those laws became necessary as a response to the industrial food system and were a response to it. Local producers have more efficient ways of knowing how their food is processed.

[Ludi]

Should we be shocked or upset though if the "non-compliant" are apprehended? Or is it the unreasonable, over-the-top scale of the apprehension that is upsetting?

Do people expect to change the (unfair) laws by not complying with them, or do they think they shouldn't be apprehended if they break them?

I can see people are upset, I guess I'm just not entirely sure what exactly they are upset about.....

[Ludi]

Thanks Shanny.

I probably was jus tnot making myself clear.

[dinopello]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')s far as I know it is quite legal to GIVE AWAY raw milk, etc, to your friends, family, and neighbors. I see no need to get involved in the legal mess of SELLING these products if you don't want to follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules for selling,* DON'T SELL.

It's not all that difficult.

*edited to add "or you don't want to fight to change them"

[Ludi]

Many of these rules were put in place when there were still many small dairies, such as in my area. The rules helped put these small operators out of business.

[jupiters_release]

Lack of compassion is ultimately based in some level of ignorance or inexperience.

[Ludi]

I also have a cold, Shanny, so I empathize.

I agree the rules are no longer being used to protect the people but are now to a large extent used to protect big business. This is certainly the case with the USDA now, who have actually forced people to stop testing their own products because it gives untested products a bad image.

[Quinny]

In the UK the regulations are causingrproblems to smallholders because regulations (which are fairly reasonable) are too difficult to apply when farmingon micro scale!

[Pops]

OK, I quit.

[HeckuvaJob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'Y')ea. What about a product recall confuses you?

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'O')K, I quit.

[HeckuvaJob]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'O')ne of my heroes is Vandana Shiva.
http://www.navdanya.org/

[davep]

Link

On Monday, December 1, a SWAT team with semi-automatic rifles entered the private home of the Stowers family in LaGrange, Ohio, herded the family onto the couches in the living room, and kept guns trained on parents, children, infants and toddlers, from approximately 11 AM to 8 PM. The team was aggressive and belligerent. The children were quite traumatized. At some point, the “bad cop” SWAT team was relieved by another team, a “good cop” team that tried to befriend the family. The Stowers family has run a very large, well-known food cooperative called Manna Storehouse on the western side of the greater Cleveland area for many years. [Update]

There were agents from the Department of Agriculture present, one of them identified as Bill Lesho. The search warrant is reportedly suspicious-looking. Agents began rifling through all of the family’s possessions, a task that lasted hours and resulted in a complete upheaval of every private area in the home. Many items were taken that were not listed on the search warrant. The family was not permitted a phone call, and they were not told what crime they were being charged with. They were not read their rights. Over ten thousand dollars worth of food was taken, including the family’s personal stock of food for the coming year. All of their computers, and all of their cell phones were taken, as well as phone and contact records. The food cooperative was virtually shut down. There was no rational explanation, nor justification, for this extreme violation of Constitutional rights.

Presumably Manna Storehouse might eventually be charged with running a retail establishment without a license. Why then the Gestapo-type interrogation for a 3rd degree misdemeanor charge? This incident has raised the ominous specter of a restrictive new era in State regulation and enforcement over the nation’s private food supply.

This same type of abusive search and seizure was reported by those innocents who fell victim to oppressive federal drug laws passed in the 1990s. The present circumstance raises the obvious question: is there some rabid new interpretation of an existing drug law that considers food a controlled substance worthy of a nasty SWAT operation? Or worse, is there a previously unrecognized provision(s) pertaining to food in the Homeland Security measures? Some have suggested that it was merely an out-of-control, hot-to-trot ODA agent, and, if so, this would be a best-case scenario. Anything else might spell the beginning of the end for the freedom to eat unregulated and unmonitored food.

One blogger familiar with the Ohio situation has reported that:

“Interestingly, I believe they [Manna Storehouse] said a month or so ago, an undercover ODA official came to their little store and claimed to have a sick father wanting to join the co-op. Both the owner and her daughter-in-law had a horrible feeling about the man, and decided not to allow him into the co-op and notified him by certified mail. He came back to the co-op demanding to be part of it. They refused and gave him names of other businesses and health food stores closer to his home. Not coincidentally, this man was there yesterday as part of the raid.”

The same blog also noted that the Ohio Department of Agriculture has been chastised by the courts in several previous instances for its aggression, including trying to entrap an Amish man in a raw milk “sale,” which backfired when it became known that the Amish believe in a literal interpretation of “give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away” (Matthew 5:42)

The issue appears to be the discovery of a bit of non-institutional beef in an Oberlin College food service freezer a year ago that was tracked down by a county sanitation official to Manna Storehouse. Oberlin College’s student food coop is widely known for its strident ideological stance about eating organic foods. It seems that the Oberlin student food cooperative had joined the Manna Storehouse food cooperative in order to buy organic foods in bulk from the national organic food distributor United, which services buying clubs across the nation. The sanitation official, James Boddy, evidently contacted the Ohio Department of Agriculture. After the first contact by state ODA officials, Manna Storehouse reportedly wrote them a letter requesting assistance and guidelines for complying with the law. This letter was never answered. Rather, the ODA agent tried several times to infiltrate the coop, as described above. When his attempts failed, the SWAT team showed up!

Food cooperatives and buying clubs have been an active part of the American landscape for over a generation. In the 1970s, with the rise of the organic food industry (a direct outgrowth of the hippie back-to-nature movement) food coops started up all over the country. These were groups of people who freely associated for the purpose of combining their buying power so that they could order organic food items in bulk and case lots. Anyone who was part of these coops in the early era will remember the messy breakdown of 35 pounds of peanut butter and 5 gallon drums of honey!

These buying clubs have persisted and flourished over the years due to their ability to purchase high quality organic foods at reduced prices in bulk quantities. Most cooperatives have participated greatly in the local agrarian economies, supporting neighborhood organic farmers with purchases of produce, eggs, chickens, etc. The groups also purchase food from a number of different local, regional and national distributors, many of them family-based businesses who truck the food themselves. Some of these food cooperatives have become large enough to set up mini-storefront operations where members can drop in and purchase items leftover from case lot sales. Manna Storehouse had established itself in such a manner, using a small enclosed breezeway attached to their home. It was a folksy place with old wooden floors where coop members stopped by to chat and snack on bags of organic corn chips.

The state of Ohio boasts the second largest Amish population in the country. Many of the Amish live on acreages where they raise their own food, not unlike Manna Storehouse, and sell off the extras to neighbors and church members. There is a sense of foreboding that this state crackdown on a longstanding, reputable food cooperative operation could adversely impact the peaceful agrarian way of life not only for the Amish, but homeschoolers and those families living off the land on rural acreages. It raises the disturbing possibility that it could become a crime to raise your own food, buy eggs from the farmer down the road, or butcher your own chickens for family and friends – bustling activities that routinely take place in backwater America.

The freedom to purchase food directly form the source is increasingly under attack. For those who have food allergies and chemical intolerances, or who are on special medical diets, this is becoming a serious health issue. Will Americans retain the right to purchase food that is uncontaminated by pesticides, herbicides, allergens, additives, dyes, preservatives, MSG, GMOs, radiation, etc.? The melamine scare from China underscores the increasingly inferior and suspect quality of modern processed institutional foods. One blog, commenting on the bizarre and troubling Manna Storehouse situation, observed that:


“No one is saying exactly why. At the same time the FDA says it is safe to eat the 40% of tainted beef found in Costco's and Sam's all over the nation. These farm raids are very common now. Every farmer needs to fully equipped [sic] for the possibility of it happening to them. The Farmer To Consumer Legal Defense Fund was created just for this purpose. The USDA just released their plans to put a law into action that will put all small farmers out of business. Animals for the sale of meat or milk will only be allowed in commercial farms, even the organic ones.” December 3, 2008 7:09 PM

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

this was already posted wasn't it?

[davep]

Oops. If so, can a mod delete it?

[uNkNowN ElEmEnt]

Yeah, its here. in the open discussion.

[marq=left]Topics merged by wisconsin_cur[/marq]

[kpeavey]

I license to sell food will run you anywhere from $10 to $200, and wil cover a wide array of products. The county inspectors come around now and then to take a look, and in most places are required by law to present their credentials immediately. What they are looking for is potential hazards: improper storage, improper temperatures, unpotable water. When they find something, they start digging deeper. When I owned a candy company the only thing they ever found was a ceiling light with a cover missing.

Some products require additional licenses. Dairy is a biggie. Milk is an ideal medium for bacterial contamination and propagation. If someone is selling milk, they have a responsibility to ensure the integrity of the product. if you want to sell milk products, taking that additional responsibility to get a license should be a simple task.

While I understand the point of view of the operators of this co-op not wanting the burden of a government overlord, until the government no longer functions as a cohesive body, compliance with them is still needed, lest they stomp on your face.

As for the Ohio Department of Agriculture...
A SWAT team? Give me a break! I understand they are only looking out for the safety of the inspectors and the public health, but this is far more force than seems reasonable according to the information in the articles. Looks to me to be more of a practice run than simply setting an example of the operators.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'J')ust one more reason NOT to TELL anyone in your physical environment what you have stocked. Zombies come in many disguises!

[kpeavey]

Hills and hedgerows, clearings and fields surrounded by woods. Lots of brambles. At least some things can be kept out of sight of passersby.

Hard to hide a field of corn from a helicopter.

I don't want to come across as a paranoid freak, but if you have no license, they will come and take all your food and crops. If you do have a license, at least they will wait until riots begin in the cities before they come and take all your food and crops. A food license lets the govt thugs add you to their pillaging list.

[HeckuvaJob]

Warning: the following post contains online information which may not be suitable for viewers sensitive to hysteria, sensationalism and hype. Reader discretion is advised. The provision of this information is not intended as a tactic to increase sales. The author contends that one man's SWAT team raid is another man's citation.

I found some updates. Apparently the husband was fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here. Seems U.S. Forgot to Tell Navy Seabee Chad Stowers the Real War Is Being Fought Here...and He’s the Enemy
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hen officers from the Lorain County Sheriff’s Office in Ohio arrived last Monday at the Manna Storehouse food cooperative in LaGrange with weapons drawn and trained on Katie Stowers and her children, along with her in-laws, there was one member of the family missing.

Katie’s husband, Chad, is a U.S. Navy Seabee, helping in construction projects in the midst of combat in Iraq. He’s been there, separated from his family, for the last five months, supposedly protecting our rights from abuse—the sort of abuse that appears to be taking place on an ever-more-frequent basis at farms and food outlets around the country.