[lorenzo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SilverHair', 'I')f palm plantations are a viable answer then I am sure that some brave capatilist will put up his money and profit greatly from it, but I am not holding my breath.

[ECM]

Here is a link to the New beetle Green scores for all 2005 models

http://www.epa.gov/autoemissions/E-VOLKSWAGEN-NewBeetle-05.htm

Note that while the diesel gets better mileage and gives off less greenhouse gas it is far more polluting. The higher the score the better.

[lorenzo]

Please take a look at transport derived per capita pollution and greenhouse gas emissions (Sox, Nox, Co2):

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/11/15/24111692.PDF

There are some big filthy polluters out there.

[FatherOfTwo]

I know some of the pro’s and con’s of switching to diesel…
Pro’s: better gas mileage, potentially better long term use due to biodiesel availability
Con’s: harder on the environment

But what about availability and price as the barrel of oil increases in price? I know many more cars run on gas, but the trucking industry almost exclusively uses diesel. Currently diesel and gas prices are essentially the same. Also, according to the EIA, a barrel of oil consists of 47% gasoline and 23% heating oil and diesel.

So what’s the consensus, will a diesel vehicle (due to it's inherent better fuel efficiency)continue to be cheaper to fuel as oil prices soar?

[Chrissib]

In Germany, it's much cheaper to drive with Diesel, because it costs only 1EUR per liter, gasoline costs about 1,20EUR per liter. But I know that both is much cheaper in the USA.

[Kingcoal]

If everyone switches to diesel, what do we do with all the gasoline? I know, we'll make diesel cars completely out of plastic!

[lorenzo]

I've often read that the world at large is moving increasingly towards using diesel, away of gasoline. The trend is clear in Europe, Latin America and Asia. Only in the US it is less outspoken.

Now I'm no expert, but won't this cause problems in the refinery and supply sector? Can you create any diesel-gasoline ratio out of a barrel of crude oil, at will, without problems? Or are you stuck with more or less fixed ratios?

[JoeW]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'I')'ve often read that the world at large is moving increasingly towards using diesel, away of gasoline. The trend is clear in Europe, Latin America and Asia. Only in the US it is less outspoken.

Now I'm no expert, but won't this cause problems in the refinery and supply sector? Can you create any diesel-gasoline ratio out of a barrel of crude oil, at will, without problems? Or are you stuck with more or less fixed ratios?

[rockdoc123]

Well one of the upsides with respect to diesel is from the GTL side of things. The diesel like fuel produced through this process is clean and has a high efficiency. There are a couple of GTL pilots/plants developing in Qatar....one using the Shell designed Fischer Troph technique the other using Syntroleum's licensed technology (basically the same I think with the exception one needs pure oxygen input the other can work on unprocessed air). The hurdle here is in getting costs down to a level where it is economic.
But of course there is not an endless supply of gas so GTL could perhaps move the peak out a few years but likely no more (haven't done the calculation).

[0mar]

maybe in the past, today chemists can transform fractions into what they need at the expense of some energy

[arretium]

Due to peak oil, I'm seriously considering purchasing 20,000 gallons of gasoline and/or diesel fuel. I estimate the cost of the acquisition, including tank installation, at around $100,000 U.S. dollars. The problem is if I keep waiting, it is just going to get more expensive.

I've done a little google research on long term gasoline storage and so far, the prognosis is not good. It appears that gasoline can not be stored for longer than 2 weeks except under limited circumstances. What those limited circumstances are, I'm not sure.

The USFS (Forest Service) has a CFR out that issues guidelines for long term gasoline storage. The guideline I read talks about vapor locks and pressurization.

Can anyone tell me if it is possible for me to store gasoline for up to 30 years , and if it is, what do I need to do to make it possible with the ability to draw down the stock as I would a regular gas station?

[RonMN]

I've used the addative "STA-BIL" and had 5 gallons of gas last me 2 years...but that was for my lawnmower & snow blower...i wouldn't attempt putting that 2 year old gas in my car...it wasn't looking very good at the 2 year mark but it still worked in the lawnmower.

Even if you could somehow make it last for longer...how in the world would you protect all that gas? if people couldn't get to it they'd proabaly just shoot at it (after the shortages begin).

[dissimulo]

Gasoline is about the worst fuel that you can store in terms of volatility. You can expect to get around 2-3 years out of it after treating it with an additive, such as PRI or STA-BIL and storing it in a cool place under seal.

Diesel is a bit better, but still suffers from breakdown and from biological contamination. With treatment, estimates seems to average about five years for diesel. Some say it will go as long as ten, but I have not found anyone who claims to have actually tested this.

Kerosene is the most stable of the liquid fuels. It will last longer than gas or diesel. Some say it will last marginally longer and some say it will last considerably longer. I've seen estimates that range from 10 years to 25 years.

Since diesel engines will burn kerosene, I would recommend storing kerosene instead. Just store some extra filters and injectors for your diesel engine(s). Kerosene is also a bit more versatile for uses other than an engine fuel.

20,000 gallons? I hope you've got some very deep tanks and a lot of guns to protect them .

[arretium]

Well I thought I might be in for trouble and it looks like it just won't work.

Kerosene is the only way? Even there, the long term storage capacity of 10-20 years isn't great. But it does buy some time that's for sure.

You're right that I'd need some kind of secrecy to develop this plan. That's difficult given the permiting requirements on the county level and the people who would be hired to actually install the tank would know of its existence, along with the kerosene tank driver who drove out to fill it.

[NonToxic]

How about the materials to make bio-diesel? How long could the storage of them last?

[dissimulo]

Unless you have a source to obtain or make the vegetable oil, storing all the biodiesel components will take more space and may well cost more than simply storing diesel or kerosene.

If it comes down to a time where you have to use stored fuel, free used vegetable oil is just not going to be available. Fresh vegetable oil is generally more expensive than petroleum and I don't see any reason why that will change, considering it must be grown and transported using petroleum. You would also need to store more vegetable oil, since it does not convert 100% to biodiesel and the biodiesel has lower energy than diesel or kerosene. You would probably be better off just buying and storing biodiesel now.

I have no idea how well biodiesel stores. My assumption is that it does not store as well as petroleum products, but I could be wrong.

On the other hand, if you have a large amount of land and want to grow a lot of oil seed, I'd say it makes sense to store biodiesel components, so you can always make your own fuel.

[dissimulo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('arretium', 'K')erosene is the only way? Even there, the long term storage capacity of 10-20 years isn't great. But it does buy some time that's for sure.

[thorn]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissimulo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('arretium', 'K')erosene is the only way? Even there, the long term storage capacity of 10-20 years isn't great. But it does buy some time that's for sure.

[dissimulo]

Imagine how many ants you would have if you stored enough sugar to make 20,000 gallons of alcohol.

[J-Rod]

I didn't really scour the forums to see if this is being discussed elsewhere, if so, please forgive me.

I notice the huge difference now between gas prices and diesel. I mean, wow. From what I understand this is because we are buying lower standards of gas on the open market, forcing Europe's prices up and ours down, but diesel is not under that category, we are still refining our own for the most part. Is this basically correct? And if so, is the price of diesel currently what we could expect for price on regular grades of gas should we have to rely solely on our own production, with fluctuation depending on how we decide to cut up the refining for either grade?

Is the diesel just high because of futures trading in foresight of the winter? I can't imagine truckers will be able to sustain this steady climb, and prosper through the winter. I wuold guess alot of the owner/operators will have to quit and sign on with a company, and file with a W-2. As an indie, they have no one to pass the cost on to, they have to absorb. The larger companies however, I would think can find ways to pass cost, and begin the long process of inflation. Just my .02