[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('xerces', 'O')n election night, I was hanging out with a group of friends. And we were basically discussing some of the wealth re-distribution plans that Obama was proposing. I strongly disapprove of such methods and very quickly found out that nearly all of my friends were for it. In short, almost all of a group of educated mid-20s people were supporting a government that would give them money that they didn't earn.

Being a little perplexed by all of this, I gave my old man a call and we talked about this obsession with socializing other people's wealth. My father mentioned that when he was my age, he believed it as well. He believed as a young man that people should willingly give up their wealth and material possessions for the greater good. That a society should take all that a person is capable of producing and give to those that needs it. He also mentioned that it was all government bullsh*t, just propaganda designed to get young people to do stupid things for a political party. He told me that during the cultural revolution in China, a generation of young people sacrificed their youth and energy for the corrupt goals of handful of political power-brokers. In the end those people woke up in their 30s with no money, no skills, and was totally abandoned by their own government. And that was why he stopped believing that communism could work.

I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion on this matter?

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'H')owever there is a BIG difference between Americans vs. Western Europeans in what society expects from government and how much "support" one should receive from government.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'T')he average single income in Canada was, last I checked, 35K/year. Making more than four times that is pretty rich.

[Javaman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('xerces', 'O')n election night, I was hanging out with a group of friends. And we were basically discussing some of the wealth re-distribution plans that Obama was proposing. I strongly disapprove of such methods and very quickly found out that nearly all of my friends were for it. In short, almost all of a group of educated mid-20s people were supporting a government that would give them money that they didn't earn.

Being a little perplexed by all of this, I gave my old man a call and we talked about this obsession with socializing other people's wealth. My father mentioned that when he was my age, he believed it as well. He believed as a young man that people should willingly give up their wealth and material possessions for the greater good. That a society should take all that a person is capable of producing and give to those that needs it. He also mentioned that it was all government bullsh*t, just propaganda designed to get young people to do stupid things for a political party. He told me that during the cultural revolution in China, a generation of young people sacrificed their youth and energy for the corrupt goals of handful of political power-brokers. In the end those people woke up in their 30s with no money, no skills, and was totally abandoned by their own government. And that was why he stopped believing that communism could work.

I'm interested in hearing everyone's opinion on this matter?

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'W')hat, in your opinion, is a model citizen supposed to do?

[Nickel]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Javaman', 'A')n equal distribution of money is somewhat analogous to an equal distribution of energy; in either case it is not possible to get any work done.

[graham]

Most 'young' people over here are completely indifferent to politics. The few that are politically active (such as myself- though being nearly 30 is not so young) tend to gravitate towards out of the box critical thinking, and sustainability/green issues. 'Isms' are generally seen as irrelevant. Ask yourself this- is capitalism a perfect meritocracy? Little has actually changed since the nineteenth century, the worst aspects of capitalism (ie. worker exploitation/sweatshops) have simply been off shored.

[Maddog78]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'T')he average single income in Canada was, last I checked, 35K/year. Making more than four times that is pretty rich.

[Maddog78]

Sorry, d.p.
The site was working very slowly earlier.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nickel', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'W')hat, in your opinion, is a model citizen supposed to do?

[ROCKMAN]

I'd have to put a harsher spin on all of it. I always refer to such "sharing" philosophies as the "thief mentality". Very simple: I deserve what anyone else has. It’s not right that they have (fill in the blank) and I don’t. Most of my kin are thieves to some degree. They no more consider stealing wrong then most of us think working for what we have as wrong. At times you can even smell their sense of self rightness.

As I said -- harsh. But simplistically true.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'I')'d have to put a harsher spin on all of it. I always refer to such "sharing" philosophies as the "thief mentality". Very simple: I deserve what anyone else has. It’s not right that they have (fill in the blank) and I don’t. Most of my kin are thieves to some degree. They no more consider stealing wrong then most of us think working for what we have as wrong. At times you can even smell their sense of self rightness.

As I said -- harsh. But simplistically true.

[Quinny]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GreyGhost', 'O')lder people prefer capitalism because older people tend to have more money.

[eastbay]

.... just something to point out:


Few communists envision an economic system with a totally equal distribution of wealth and equal incomes for all. No socialist system has had this either.

As a lifelong socialist, for me, a 100X spread in income and a reasonable cap on net worth would be ideal. This would allow a living wage for all, and a decent financial motivation for great scientists, inventors, and other kinds of creative genius.

In todays terms (in US dollars for N. America) an annual income spread between approximately $20,000 and $2,000,000 per year and a net worth (and inheritance) limited to $10,000,000.

[jbrovont]

Pure capitalism would ideally be supported by an equality of opportunity and ROI for every individual - such that from birth if everyone put in the same effort, they would reap the same benefit of their investment.

It's easy to see that this is never the case, however. Every individual is different in ability and in how they react in different situations. We're all born into slightly different circumstances. Equal effort will never equate to equal success for two different individuals.

Some people are greedy, and competative, and "enough" isn't "enough" unless it's more than someone else. Some people are generous and naive that there are liars, cheats and predators that look and act like them until it's time to make the proverbial kill and take from them.

I always laugh when I hear the "social darwinism" argument to justify success and failure of individuals. It usually comes from those who want to simultaneously enjoy the benefits of civilization and social structure, while exploiting a specific knowledge or ability to extract from that society more than they put in. They then claim that their success in enriching themselves is the fruit of their own hard labor and mental superiority and the losses from others are proof of their social failure.

Pure capitalism rewards the predator and the opportunist. The herd wanders and grazes while the lion sleeps the day away. Once the heard has done the work of collecting the grass and processing it into tasty nutricious meat, the predator comes and harvests the fruits of the herd's work.

It's very easy to see who the biggest freeloaders in society are. Simply look around for those who think that they deserve more than they contribute. How much wealth they've accumulated has nothing to do with it.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'F')ew communists envision an economic system with a totally equal distribution of wealth and equal incomes for all. No socialist system has had this either.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'F')ew communists envision an economic system with a totally equal distribution of wealth and equal incomes for all. No socialist system has had this either.

[LoneSnark]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ure capitalism rewards the predator and the opportunist. The herd wanders and grazes while the lion sleeps the day away. Once the heard has done the work of collecting the grass and processing it into tasty nutricious meat, the predator comes and harvests the fruits of the herd's work.

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ure capitalism rewards the predator and the opportunist. The herd wanders and grazes while the lion sleeps the day away. Once the heard has done the work of collecting the grass and processing it into tasty nutricious meat, the predator comes and harvests the fruits of the herd's work.

[mackina1]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ure capitalism rewards the predator and the opportunist. The herd wanders and grazes while the lion sleeps the day away. Once the heard has done the work of collecting the grass and processing it into tasty nutricious meat, the predator comes and harvests the fruits of the herd's work.