[aflurry]

first of all, and again, confusing price with production... 2005 still market the production peak, unless i missed something.

second of all, in chaotic markets, prices get windly displaced for asymmetric reasons.

for instance, if people need to make margin calls or shore up other unrelated areas of their businesses that may be failing, they will be forced to sell off assets that have not been damaged, like commodities. so you can have short term price fluctuations which have nothing to do with supply and demand.

sorry, y'all have to make a better case than this.

[galacticsurfer]

The relation between debt and oil is that debt is a superstraw to accelerate the depletion of oil and other resources like the modern technologies to quickly draw down oil fields. Without debt resources wouldnot be anywhere so quickyl depleted.

We will have a much quicker crash due to this huge indebtedness and the debt cannot be paid back as the resources will all be gone and drawn down.

In fact fossil fuels are borrowing from the past to leverage faster consumption of more fossil fuels, then fractional bank lending is created and on top of that debt is made by hedge funds into CDs squared and cubed for massive short term leverage for the people to get rich quick and have big houses and fast cars and make lots of trips on debt. On Wall Street they get hundreds of billions in bonuses. This is all based on a fast draw down of energy and other resources like wood, steel and coal based chinese production. Without debt and bubble this resource drawdown would have been much slower than it has been so it is evry way financial engineeringin the sense of petroleum engineering as a technology to accelerate drawdown. So collapse under modern neoliberal policy is a collapse acceleration model. A Hubbert sine wave curve was possible for the economy and for USA oil curve in 40s-70s but with high tech financial and oil exploitation technology in the 90s -2000s the Hubbert depletion curve and the economic curves are to be expected to be much more extreme. The economic indicators have shown this tendency already due to finacial engineering of debt and soon this crash should show up with the oil production curves.

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Leanan', 'I') am more pessimistic than ever. Without credit, how will alternate energy be developed, or new infrastructure built?

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aswerfawf', 'i') think the explaination for some doomers is that they secretly want this culture, this society, this civilization to be destroyed. peak oil, like the other crisis cults of the past (i'm talking about christianity and zorastrianism) have capitalized on this intense desire to destroy societies which hold us captive. unfortunately, they also have the tendency to replace concrete action with faith and put all their energy into preparing for the fire of god. however, hoping for the collapse won't hasten it any more than building a root celler will.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SuperTico', 'A')m I a whacko ?

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('galacticsurfer', 'I')n fact fossil fuels are borrowing from the past to leverage faster consumption of more fossil fuels, then fractional bank lending is created and on top of that debt

[seahorse]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I') had always thought that the main threat caused by the peaking of world oil production was geopolitical strife, resource wars and such - simply because the Pentagon is what it is, because The Carter Doctrine has been formalized over the years, and institutions like those don't change their spots overnight.
Also, the private, historical Anglo-American oil interests are powerful capitalist groups who are admirably represented in Washington by people like Dick Cheney. So, if fields in Mexico, the North Sea, and elsewhere have already peaked, its not surprising that a Dick like Cheney is at the helm guiding US actions in Iraq - the last, rich, cheap oil province left on the planet. This has always been my main interest; its a working hypothesis that will be proven true or untrue in the near future.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '[')url=http://www.princeton.edu/hubbert/current-events.html]Was It Deliberate?[/url] Kinda weird seeing ol' Ken turn conspiracy theorist. But I think he's shooting way wide of the mark on this one. This was NOT some sort of international conspiracy to destroy the US economy!

[threadbear]

Dude, There is an over-arching reality called peak oil, a geological event that, barring development of alternatives and slowing of the economy, will be a terrible problem. But the oil price bubble didn't actually have much to do with it. The rising prices were more the result of insanity in the economic system than the actual cause. You have two pretty distinct problems here, that are wrapped around each other, but don't necessarily touch.

[Jenab6]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakOilDebunked', 'I')t's official. Peak oil is a loser... The end of civilization dogma around here strikes me as a total juvenile fantasy trip.
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[aswerfawf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', 'A')nd you're nuts if you're not contemplating the possibility of a dire scenario. The developed world needs to be tossed on it's a**, to reevaluate what is actually important.

[jupiters_release]

Matt Simmons cares: Meltdown