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Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collapses?

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby VMarcHart » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:03:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'W')hat's foolish about what he said?
Please say when.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', '.')..we inherited a giant industrial infrastructure --4-5 refineries, a lot of hydro power, railroads, etc--

...we are not aspiring to live like americans, we aspire for a better life --"I watched a movie on my home setup, live in a brand new condo on top of the city, with everything fully automated (garage door, lights, etc). I have electronically controled heating in the house. Warmer at night, slightly lower during the day. I drive a turbocharged sports car. Just been to McDonalds with my girlfriend for some double cheeseburgers at 1:00 AM. My cellphone, blackberry and internet services are of great quality and come dirt-cheap. ($15 broadband internet with TV and land line telephone included). Friends enjoy free wireless internet at my place."

...we pay cash if we ever go to McDonalds or buy gas.

...I work in the software industry, live in a big city and so on ... we are making money to make a future in which we don't depend on cars, imported food, etc.

...I am talented software developer...

...It's in our culture not to depend on anyone or anything.

...as long as I am completely aware of the world around me, and don't live in a way that is not sustainable or unafodable, I don't see anything wrong.
On 9/29/08, cube wrote: "The Dow will drop to 4,000 within 2 years". The current tally is 239 bold predictions, 9 right, 96 wrong, 134 open. If you've heard here, it's probably wrong.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby Ayoob » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:31:38

mrobert

I think it's funny. Most of the people on peakoil.com or latoc.com hate success, sticking up for yourself, competing, etc. Many of them worship failure and hate The System and can't wait for it all to come down.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby VMarcHart » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:37:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'M')ost of the people on peakoil.com or latoc.com hate success, sticking up for yourself, competing, etc. Many of them worship failure and hate The System and can't wait for it all to come down.
I don't.
On 9/29/08, cube wrote: "The Dow will drop to 4,000 within 2 years". The current tally is 239 bold predictions, 9 right, 96 wrong, 134 open. If you've heard here, it's probably wrong.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby Ludi » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 17:56:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'M')ost of the people on peakoil.com or latoc.com hate success, sticking up for yourself, competing, etc.


Yeah, what a pack of losers, I tell ya!

:roll:
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby startswithearthquakes » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 18:21:25

mrobert wants to touch my giant wang =(
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby Farknight » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 19:06:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'G')et your sh*t together. America is not the center of the universe, and if you vanish, we can't care less, honestly. As said above, we will be fine.


The problem with your statement above mrobert is that Amerika won't simply "vanish" no mater how hard folks may wish it so. When one's nation has 5000 Thermonuclear warheads on GPS and satellite guided missiles vanishing can be messy.

Get the wrong people in charge of that arsenal and the world may discover it was the US and not Russia that was the nuclear wild card.

Europe has survived under a US nuclear umbrella since the conclusion of WWII. It is a fact plain and simple. To me what must take place in such a world is a reshuffling of economic priorities to ensure a more equitable world. God knows that the USA is guilty of greed and corruption and that this nation is getting exactly what it sowed.

I'm only first generation Amerikan, my Dad having emigrated from Australia. I have a lot of folks down under and from what I can tell it is basically becoming "America Lite."

I simply can't shake the feeling deep, deep down within me somewhere, a nagging irascible fear that nuclear weapons have changed the old global game forever. No empire of the past could kill us all until now: not Britain, Rome, Greece, Persia, the Mayans, Aztecs, Ashanti...none. If we are not extremely careful this has the real possibility of ending very badly for everyone.

I believe we ALL better get our sh*t together and soon!
The future ain't what it used to be.

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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby StuckInPhilly » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 19:14:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('VMarcHart', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StuckInPhilly', 'W')hether it is a soft or hard crash, I do think we will break into separate countries.
Is this your final answer, or would you like to make a phone call?


I'll stick with this and save the lifeline for another time. Afterall, I'm talking several years into the future.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby mos6507 » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 19:17:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('startswithearthquakes', 'm')robert wants to touch my giant wang =(


Nice comment, George Takei.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby Revi » Sun 12 Oct 2008, 21:11:31

What will happen if the US economy crashes? I think it won't be any fun at all.

We invented all the fun things.

What would you all do without Cheezewhiz, or tootsie rolls?

Baseball and whitewall tires?

Let's not forget the drive in movie and soda pop.

Funk music. C'mon!

If the American economy crashes we lose all this, and more.
Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby mrobert » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 06:00:13

No, I don't want too much. I already have what I wanted or need.
What I really want is to see my house finished, and be able to do all those little research projects I have done in the past. My personal satisfaction is always in creating something, not making money.

I run quite a "stupid" business model, many say so. It took me 5 years of running a small company, to take a look at some financial statements. I can't care less.
I know that I long as I do my job well, I won't starve. And I don't spend time on things like "maximizing profits", "cutting costs" etc.
And it works just well.
I rather spend that time on development, keeping in touch with customers, etc.

And the US won't crash over night. That's the funny thing. It will slowly decay like any empire. And it won't be much of a bargain to state: "You will support us, or we will use the nukes".

The rest of the planet might decide to nuke the entire US continent and continue living on a planet with one continent left.

And keep in mind that operating large scale military operations will require RESOURCES. Not so widely available in the US ... isn't it?

And just because some J6P's and PO.com forum members find it a great idea to keep the american dream alive by using nukes, it doesn't make it the default option for the entire US. There might be people who think otherwise and want something else.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby VMarcHart » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 08:01:19

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'A')nd just because some J6P's and PO.com forum members find it a great idea to keep the american dream alive by using nukes, it doesn't make it the default option for the entire US.
I don't. But in the US, what the majority wants, whether or not consciously moral, it's not what goes. See presidential election of 2000, of 2004, bailout bill, etc.
On 9/29/08, cube wrote: "The Dow will drop to 4,000 within 2 years". The current tally is 239 bold predictions, 9 right, 96 wrong, 134 open. If you've heard here, it's probably wrong.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby Farknight » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 08:58:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', 'N')o, I don't want too much. I already have what I wanted or need.
What I really want is to see my house finished, and be able to do all those little research projects I have done in the past. My personal satisfaction is always in creating something, not making money.

I run quite a "stupid" business model, many say so. It took me 5 years of running a small company, to take a look at some financial statements. I can't care less.
I know that I long as I do my job well, I won't starve. And I don't spend time on things like "maximizing profits", "cutting costs" etc.
And it works just well.
I rather spend that time on development, keeping in touch with customers, etc.

And the US won't crash over night. That's the funny thing. It will slowly decay like any empire. And it won't be much of a bargain to state: "You will support us, or we will use the nukes".

The rest of the planet might decide to nuke the entire US continent and continue living on a planet with one continent left.

And keep in mind that operating large scale military operations will require RESOURCES. Not so widely available in the US ... isn't it?

And just because some J6P's and PO.com forum members find it a great idea to keep the american dream alive by using nukes, it doesn't make it the default option for the entire US. There might be people who think otherwise and want something else.


Actually, I believe most sane people want to avoid nuclear winter at all costs. And to believe any nation would actually survive an all out nuclear war is folly. Go watch the classic On the Beach with Gregory Peck (or the more lame 2000 version).

What I am saying is that TPTB will not easily allow their wealth to slide away when they have nuclear bargaining chips. This is a card Russia has played for years and every major nation is attempting to catch up to so they to are "nuclear secured". This is not a wish or a want, this is a political reality, go ask North Korea or Iran.

My point is that no past fading empire, even the Brits, had such massive military capability that remained following collapse. From a practical stand point alone, look what a mess the Soviet arsenal was after their collapse. God only knows how many nukes quietly slipped away in the night. I guess one day we will all find out because there are plenty of idiotic murderous causes out there willing to make their point by obliterating innocent people. :(
The future ain't what it used to be.

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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby mrobert » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 09:18:16

@Farknight: "On The Beach" is in my private movie collection. Excellent movie :)

Basically, what you people say is that the american way of life, can and will continue, because otherwise we will get nuked.
Honestly, look at the standard of living declining in the US, and countries of which they laugh (Romania), having an increased standard of living ... yet I see no nukes.

After seing the effectivness of the US Army in Iraq, "The world's best military VS. Iraqi men in underwear running in the sand" ... what can I say ... I am all scared.

---------------
NUKES are a totally DIFFERENT story.
Ok, you invaded Iraq and fed some BS to the public on democracy ... that can fly. But do you honestly think the US can launch a Nuke, and the rest of the world (China, Russia, Europe, Japan, etc) ... just sit back and buy the terrorism BS?
People didn't give a f*ck on your explanation on Iraq because it was an issue that didn't affect us.

A nuke will ONLY be launched as retaliation to another nuke.
And guess who has the highest chance of seing a nuke first? Me in Romania, coming from the russians? No :)
You people in the US :)
It will be the next 9/11.
Some big US city wiped with a Nuke, coming from your wonderful government, to be able to justify a nuclear retaliation.

If I was a military strategist (which I am not, and they are way smarter), I would retaliate against the US with nukes. Just a simple deadly airborne virus.

You know ... it wouldn't post any threat to the rest, since there are a few thousand miles of oceans around you.

QED
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 09:52:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', '
')Baseball


Why do you think there won't be baseball?
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby Farknight » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 09:58:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mrobert', '@')Farknight: "On The Beach" is in my private movie collection. Excellent movie :)

Basically, what you people say is that the american way of life, can and will continue, because otherwise we will get nuked.
Honestly, look at the standard of living declining in the US, and countries of which they laugh (Romania), having an increased standard of living ... yet I see no nukes.

After seing the effectivness of the US Army in Iraq, "The world's best military VS. Iraqi men in underwear running in the sand" ... what can I say ... I am all scared.

---------------
NUKES are a totally DIFFERENT story.
Ok, you invaded Iraq and fed some BS to the public on democracy ... that can fly. But do you honestly think the US can launch a Nuke, and the rest of the world (China, Russia, Europe, Japan, etc) ... just sit back and buy the terrorism BS?
People didn't give a f*ck on your explanation on Iraq because it was an issue that didn't affect us.

A nuke will ONLY be launched as retaliation to another nuke.
And guess who has the highest chance of seing a nuke first? Me in Romania, coming from the russians? No :)
You people in the US :)
It will be the next 9/11.
Some big US city wiped with a Nuke, coming from your wonderful government, to be able to justify a nuclear retaliation.

If I was a military strategist (which I am not, and they are way smarter), I would retaliate against the US with nukes. Just a simple deadly airborne virus.

You know ... it wouldn't post any threat to the rest, since there are a few thousand miles of oceans around you.

QED


I believe you are missing MY entire point mrobert; I personally agree with most everything yous say. I don't advocate crazy nuclear adventurism, but perhaps our government might as you allude to in your post. I agree Iraq is idiocy on so many scales. These guys apparently didn't watch the British experience in Iraq or the Soviet experience in Afghanistan. The latter must be giving the old KGBers a great laugh at Amerika's expense and a pit of payback for arming the Afghans.

What I am saying is quite simple really:

1. Amerika will in all likelihood fairly slowly implode along the lines of Soviet Russia with a lower standard of living; Granted we are talking a few years here.

2. The power vacuum will be filled regionally by the EU, Russia, China and power block in South America...Africa remains a mess.

3. The US remains a formidable regional power on our continent, nuclear armed to prevent foolish aggression and more disengaged with the globe and more engaged with dealing with the social issues of our falling economy.

4. In Romainia and all other Europe the primary issue you will face is Russia and your energy dependence upon them. Putin has made it abundantly clear that Russia stands ready to assume the old Soviet nationalism and if Amerika does withdraw from Europe the EU will need to counterweight Russia. I truly wonder if it can, a hodgepodge of different nation states, culture and languages that all through out history warred with each other.

In the end the demise of the "Pax Americana" will not be a good thing for anybody. Yes Amerikans were gloating egotistical pigs on some cases. But that said, I have many family members who have fought to actually maintain other nation's political autonomy and died for it. Unlike Rome we didn't colonize Europe after WWII or Korea.

I can only hope the UN will step in and solve the globe's problems, any bets on that working?
The future ain't what it used to be.

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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby VMarcHart » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 10:22:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Farknight', 'I') believe you are missing MY entire point, mrobert
I too think he is.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Farknight', 'A')merika will in all likelihood fairly slowly implode along the lines of Soviet Russia with a lower standard of living; Granted we are talking a few years here.
I hope it's more like 2-3 decades.
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby StuckInPhilly » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 11:11:58

Basically, what you people say is that the american way of life, can and will continue, because otherwise we will get nuked.
Honestly, look at the standard of living declining in the US, and countries of which they laugh (Romania), having an increased standard of living ... yet I see no nukes.

After seing the effectivness of the US Army in Iraq, "The world's best military VS. Iraqi men in underwear running in the sand" ... what can I say ... I am all scared.

---------------
NUKES are a totally DIFFERENT story.
Ok, you invaded Iraq and fed some BS to the public on democracy ... that can fly. But do you honestly think the US can launch a Nuke, and the rest of the world (China, Russia, Europe, Japan, etc) ... just sit back and buy the terrorism BS?
People didn't give a f*ck on your explanation on Iraq because it was an issue that didn't affect us.

A nuke will ONLY be launched as retaliation to another nuke.
And guess who has the highest chance of seing a nuke first? Me in Romania, coming from the russians? No :)
You people in the US :)
It will be the next 9/11.
Some big US city wiped with a Nuke, coming from your wonderful government, to be able to justify a nuclear retaliation.

If I was a military strategist (which I am not, and they are way smarter), I would retaliate against the US with nukes. Just a simple deadly airborne virus.

You know ... it wouldn't post any threat to the rest, since there are a few thousand miles of oceans around you.

QED[/quote]


mroberts has some serious anger issues to deal with, that's probably why he's missing much of what's being said.

You hate us and want to wipe us out with a virus because we supposedly laugh at you and are gonna nuke you.
Sounds like you've been learning from the "How to be a typical jack-ass American" book.
“In the Soviet Union, capitalism triumphed over communism. In this country, capitalism triumphed over democracy.”
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Re: Your Opinion: What will happen if the US economy collaps

Unread postby mrobert » Mon 13 Oct 2008, 14:59:22

@StuckInPhilly: I definately don't have any anger issues, and even more definately, I take no joy in seing some nation wiped out or in hardship. Be that the US or some crappy country in Africa.

As for the "virus" thing, I was merely trying to point out that the US (or anyone for a fact) isn't in a position of absolute safety and superior strategical context, to be able to engage in a war and imagine thing will turn out "just fine".

The Iraqis didn't hurt a tree on US soil, but how many american people died or suffered because much needed services were lacking, since the funds were used to fuel a war?

The only "anger" I have, is to see people like americans, from which I have learned a lot in how to make my life better and think better ... end up in a situation where the solution to their problems is using nukes and war.

As for our energy dependence, we are NOT that dependant.
We have plenty of oil, natural gas, coal and hydro to get along. We even have refineries.

-----
Perhaps it's time to start using your resources and efforts to solve your issues (and you can do that if you want), instead of thinking of ways to further screw the others.

Take a look at your military technology. What if that amount of money would have been used to develop technology for you people? Where would you be now?

You've got your elections coming up. Why not vote for someone who has a dumb clue about what's happening?
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