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Victor in the VP Debate

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Who won the VP Debate?

Biden
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Palin
22
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Cthulhu
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Total votes : 69

Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby vtsnowedin » Thu 02 Oct 2008, 23:55:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('venky', 'I')ts mainly because many of us have spent the better part of the week disregarding her as an airheaded bimbo, that her making coherent arguments and at the least holding her ground in this debate is a victory of sorts.

Sure it was pretty obvious that her answers were memorized and her actual depth of knowledge was pretty thin, nevertheless I am sure that while we might dismiss her as a fake, the right wing base and even some independents are going to love her; she does know how to connect to them.


You think Biden's weren't?? I think they both prepared as hard as they could.
I wonder if the McCain camp was smart enough to have her play dumb with Kuric to lower expectations?
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby AlexdeLarge » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 00:01:40

She was as nervous as Obama would be at a Nascar race! LOL

Biden was cool. He showed how a lifetime of pontificating at the taxpayers expense can pay off. For Palin to do as well as she did is quite amazing.

But shes in the big leagues now, and you have to be able to hit the ball.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 00:33:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'I') was impressed that Palin actually answered all the questions. Not even one "I'll have to look into it and get back to you." I think that's definitely score one for her.


She didn't always answer the question that was asked though...


That's standard for anybody working with the press. They try to corner you into answering the question they want. You try to side step and answer the issue you want to talk about.

Admittedly her answers weren't great. A lot of them had the intellectual depth of an add for Budweiser or Monday Night football, but at least she didn't get into one of those awful "I can't think of the names of any newspapers as the moment Katie, but I'll write you a list later" kind of moments.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby Plantagenet » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 01:19:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'I')t's a good thing the debate moderator is not biased. Palin will need all the help she can get!


It's not like they negotiated and agreed on the moderators, or anything.


Its not like Gwen Iflil actually told the election commission she was writing a book about the THE AGE OF OBAMA scheduled to released on inauguration day, and so stands to make huge amounts of money if Obama is elected.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby mos6507 » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 02:00:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vtsnowedin', '
')You think Biden's weren't?? I think they both prepared as hard as they could.


Biden has decades of actual experience to draw from in his answers. Palin only has memorized a few select talking points. At times she sounded like nothing but a stepford-wife McCain campaigner rather than someone talking about her own qualifications.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby TheDude » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 02:11:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smallpoxgirl', 'A')ll in all....I'd say it was clearly a win for Cthulhu.


I'm not being entirely whimsical with this Cthulhu stuff, you know. What's really dominating political power anymore but mischief and malice, alien to the average person's needs?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'P')alin only has memorized a few select talking points. At times she sounded like nothing but a stepford-wife McCain campaigner rather than someone talking about her own qualifications.


That just isn't a handicap anymore. Look at Bush's level approval rating for years, with entire books published documenting his awesome command of the gaffe.

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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby smallpoxgirl » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 09:19:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '"')We're fixing to go down to Galveston and obviously are going to see a devastated part of this fantastic state."—Houston, Sept. 16, 2008


Not sure how that's a gaff if he said it in Houston. This fantastic state=the state we're all in currently=Texas.
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Of a thousand burning bridges
Sifting through the ashes every day
What we thought would never end
Now is nothing more than a memory
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby mercurygirl » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 14:15:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')sked which is a greater threat, a nuclear Pakistan or a nuclear Iran, Palin seemed to be stalling, or writing a term paper, when she said: “An armed, nuclear armed especially Iran is so extremely dangerous to consider.”

Biden was crisper, with a dose of realism: “Iran getting a nuclear weapon would be very, very destabilizing. They are more than — they are not close to getting a nuclear weapon that's able to be deployed.”

Biden relentlessly and clearly delivered a specific message he had been assigned to hammer home: McCain-Palin would be four more years of Bush-Cheney. Biden mentioned President Bush more than a dozen times.

"Look, past is prologue, Gwen," he said at one point. "The issue is, how different is John McCain's policy going to be than George Bush's? I haven't heard anything yet."

By contrast, Palin was in much more of a survival mode, barely delivering on her advisers' hopes that she would be aggressive with Biden, throwing gaffes and policies back at him. For the Alaska governor, it was policy as a second language — adequate but not enlightening.
The consensus seems to be that she didn't make any major mistakes (unless you consider vague, ideological generalities mistakes), but it was not a stellar performance. She lost in that she did not differentiate John McCain from Bush, all the "mavericks" notwithstanding.

Yeah, Dude. Some of us are aware that this is about the "look" and "style" of You-Know-Who.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby Pops » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 14:49:51

I was relieved that neither one made any embarrassing mistakes, we've had 8 years of that.

Joe won the battle on points I thought but Sarah won her war by not freezing or gaffing and just evading.

Still though I'm a dem and will vote for Barrak (however it's spelled) I wouldn't feel too worried about John being pres, but a vice prez that shakes her bangs, smiles and winks while twisting the rhetorical knife does worry me.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby dinopello » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 15:10:42

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', 'I') mean, how many times can she say "maverick" McCain? She was like a broken record.


Don't know about "maverick", but she said "also" over 90 times. My roomate pointed that out during the debate and so we just counted in the transcript. Biden said "also" 5 times for comparison.

A very minor thing, obviously and may be the way they talk up there but it seems like something that is often discouraged by English teachers.

I like how she asked and received his permission to call him "joe" and then made up cute little rhymes with his name during the debate.

Edit: I'd like to see her have a 90 minute debate on just energy since she kept saying that she was an expert. They both would struggle but there is a lot to discuss - like how she figures that we will become energy independent. Obama and Biden have both now repeated the assertion that we (the US) has only 3% of the world's reserves and use 20+% of the world's production. Palin must think our reserves are much larger or else she thinks we can dramatically reduce our consumption.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby Denny » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 17:42:35

I think its something all Americans can take pride in, seeing two political opponents being courteous to each other and also to see a women who came from no priveledged position, wealth or education like Sarah Palin, being this close to the highest office in the country. I even like her cutesy "betcha"s and "doggone it"s.

Even if her grasp of foreign relations is not that great, she can have a Secretary of State do that. I don't think most Americans put all that much emphasis on what goes on outside their borders, so it won't hurt her much. But, everybody likes to see a success story, this mother of five, one a handicapped baby, who became a governor has to be it. She is amazing.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby Ludi » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 19:50:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'S')he is amazing.


Do you agree with her assertion that the Constitution is "flexible" about the powers granted the Vice President?
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby dinopello » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 20:15:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'S')he is amazing.


Do you agree with her assertion that the Constitution is "flexible" about the powers granted the Vice President?


Is that what she was saying :razz: ?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]IFILL: Governor, you mentioned a moment ago the constitution might give the vice president more power than it has in the past. Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?

PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation.


She is huggable though, once you get over the creepyness.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby Ludi » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 20:28:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'I')s that what she was saying :razz: ?

Um, yeah, I think so.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')llowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'S')he is huggable though, once you get over the creepyness.

Oh she's completely adorable, with all the smiling and winking.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby eastbay » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 20:32:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'I') think its something all Americans can take pride in, seeing two political opponents being courteous to each other and also to see a women who came from no priveledged position, wealth or education like Sarah Palin, being this close to the highest office in the country. I even like her cutesy "betcha"s and "doggone it"s.

Even if her grasp of foreign relations is not that great, she can have a Secretary of State do that. I don't think most Americans put all that much emphasis on what goes on outside their borders, so it won't hurt her much. But, everybody likes to see a success story, this mother of five, one a handicapped baby, who became a governor has to be it. She is amazing.


I have friends from many differing political perspectives. I try to not make politics and beliefs a test for friendship. My political perspectives differ greatly from both Palin and Biden, but just from the little we know about them, I believe I could really enjoy being friends with her, and NOT him. 8)
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby mercurygirl » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 20:51:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'E')dit: I'd like to see her have a 90 minute debate on just energy since she kept saying that she was an expert. They both would struggle but there is a lot to discuss - like how she figures that we will become energy independent. Obama and Biden have both now repeated the assertion that we (the US) has only 3% of the world's reserves and use 20+% of the world's production. Palin must think our reserves are much larger or else she thinks we can dramatically reduce our consumption.
Didn't she say she was an oil regulator? She also said something about billions of gallons. Joe should have pounced on that one. Too bad.

I'd love to sit down over a beer with Joe. I think he's charming. Palin I couldn't stay in the same room with. What an ignorant phony.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby dinopello » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 21:00:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'E')dit: I'd like to see her have a 90 minute debate on just energy since she kept saying that she was an expert. They both would struggle but there is a lot to discuss - like how she figures that we will become energy independent. Obama and Biden have both now repeated the assertion that we (the US) has only 3% of the world's reserves and use 20+% of the world's production. Palin must think our reserves are much larger or else she thinks we can dramatically reduce our consumption.
Didn't she say she was an oil regulator? She also said something about billions of gallons. Joe should have pounced on that one. Too bad.
I'd love to sit down over a beer with Joe. I think he's charming. Palin I couldn't stay in the same room with. What an ignorant phony.

Yes, the problem is none of them are really that well versed like even we are here. Although Palin is the only one who claims to be an expert and who John McCain says is the most knowledgable person on energy in the country.
This guy, Rich Lowry in the National Review really liked what he saw.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A') very wise TV executive once told me that the key to TV is projecting through the screen. It's one of the keys to the success of, say, a Bill O'Reilly, who comes through the screen and grabs you by the throat. Palin too projects through the screen like crazy. I'm sure I'm not the only male in America who, when Palin dropped her first wink, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, "Hey, I think she just winked at me." And her smile. By the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.

Here is the fine gentleman on the O'reilly Factor no less...
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby mercurygirl » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 21:12:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')y the end, when she clearly knew she was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing[/b]. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can't be learned; it's either something you have or you don't, and man, she's got it.
What a load of crap. I thought her smile was weird, she smiled too much and at odd times. I think she was smiling while discussing Darfur. Biden looked like a statesman, she looked like Miss America and not the brightest one. He is so badly wrong. She was NOT doing well and perhaps part of it was nerves.
I'm sure they drilled her to smile A LOT.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby Ludi » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 21:16:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', 'I')'m sure they drilled her to smile A LOT.

They didn't need to - she's an ex-beauty queen and studied to be a broadcast journalist. Looking good is natural for her.
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Re: Victor in the VP Debate

Postby eastbay » Fri 03 Oct 2008, 22:30:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mercurygirl', 'I')'m sure they drilled her to smile A LOT.
They didn't need to - she's an ex-beauty queen and studied to be a broadcast journalist. Looking good is natural for her.

I'm not too wild about her message, or Biden's either, for that matter, but dag nab it, that woman certainly looked and sounded wonderful!

That Very Wise TV executive is right on the mark in his comments. Palin jumps right out of the screen and makes you feel nice! She has that rare quality of really connecting well with those in front of her. Her unbelievable 80% approval rating in Alaska speaks to this as well. I can't ever vote for her, but WOW what charisma!
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