[Polemic]

Remember the story of how the US in concert with Saudi supposedly tanked oil prices in the late 80's so that the Soviets would have to overproduce their fields to maintain revenue and cause an earlier peak in their production...

Just a guess, but could it be that Western powers saw how commodity-heavy Russia is in their investments; and decided that they wanted to try and burn the Russians? Maybe that partly explains what seems to be manipulation by large players in commodity prices.

I don't think it will work though in the long run. We seem doomed to collapse the way they did, or worse, and they seem destined to rise above.

[frankthetank]

Wait... This is the same country that has RESOURCES galore, huge amounts of empty land (although some may be radioactive), small population and a couple 100 billion in the bank??? I wouldn't start crying just yet...

[The_Virginian]

"Financial turmoil accelerates in Russia. Trading on RTS and MICEX stock exchanges suspended for a second day
By Polya Lesova, MarketWatch Last update: 9:51 a.m. EDT 17 Sep 2008:
NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Russian financial turmoil accelerated Wednesday as trading on the country's major exchanges was halted for a second day and the finance ministry announced plans to loan the country's three largest banks up to $44 billion. " [url=http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/financial-turmoil-accelerates-russia/story.aspx?guid={AD559BFE-5E6C-4033-87C6-36EA9D4DFA18}&siteid=aolpf1&icid=snap-nws]Now you can "cry" for Russia[/url]
Frank,
Their capitol reserves shrunk as well: "handler noted that since the war with Georgia, Russian foreign exchange reserves have fallen by $24 billion. Still, Russia has the third largest reserves in the world; they stood at $573.6 billion as of Sept.5. "

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'A')s oil revenues diminish, they will get royally screwed again. But Putin will use this "crisis" to consoldate his power even more. Got to love those KGB guys!

[heroineworshipper]

Russian banks probably had huge investments in mortgages. They've printed over 1.5 trillion Rubles since Tuesday to pay off mortgages & sustain the dollar exchange rate.

[ReverseEngineer]

Race to the Bottom.

[AlexdeLarge]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('threadbear', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', 'A')s oil revenues diminish, they will get royally screwed again. But Putin will use this "crisis" to consoldate his power even more. Got to love those KGB guys!

[threadbear]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AlexdeLarge', ' ')I wish they had gotten a taste for real democracy instead of all the corruption that followed the break up of the USSR. Now, they will go back to dictatorship without the pretense of communism.

[nobodypanic]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'S')o much for Ivan's military expansion dreams.

[MOCKBA]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBill', 'Y')our average Russian does not own shares. Those that do are those who can afford to take losses...

[MOCKBA]

Couple other interesting things about Russia... 2009 budget was done with an assumption that the average price for sub-par Urals oil would fetch north of $95... With Urals bellow $70-$75 Russian government would see deficit.

On $60B that GazProm borrowed, annual interest payment is a bit over $5B. Their capitalization was roughly $100B and this is how much they've been selling a year... All was fine when they had Soviet NG... Going forward Soviet NG would be more and more replaced with NG from Turkmenestan on which unlike all previous years GazProm would not make any profit (they were making as much as Turkmens just 3 years ago)... So in 2006 or so they've been paying Turkmenestan less then $5B a year, in 2007 it was a bit less then $15B. Going forward it would be close to $20B... To develop Yamal, GazProm is asking for $100B-$200B or 1x-2x capitalization on top of 0.6 price debt as it is...

I think it is very reasonable question - where would money come from?

At its high mark Stabilization Fund clocked $250+B but it was a while back. How much is left today is a state secret.

[deMolay]

Everyone is focused on the US problem. But the Russian markets have been shutdown for a week. Now they have been shutdown indefinately. A complete rout. The stockmarkets in Russia have been down for over a week. Now they are shutdown indefinately because of the crisis in the world Financial Markets. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

[Spanktron9]

old news and they are back open.

[Cashmere]

This is about experience.

They recognize what is happening. We don't.

They are moving away from the diseased rodent.

We're saying, "oh cute little thing. What's that in your mouth?"

The Russians have been where we're going.

So while we are all hanging our heads out of the bus windows and exclaiming, "wow, isn't this scary? Isn't this wild?"

They're recalling just a decade or so ago when they didn't have enough food to keep everybody fat and happy.

Advantage:

Russian Federation.

[deMolay]

Actually Cas I have done quite a bit of reading on the Russian collapse. What saved them was their Dacha's, and gardens. When communism collapsed there wasn't even food. Under communism they could not feed themselves. But the workers had been growing their own food for years at their summer Dacha's. This is what kept them alive. A lesson to be learned here.

[neocone]

The gardens are just one factor subsidizing food consumption... your typical garden wouldn't even produce 5% of the calories consumed by a family of 4.

People just ate less and got organized... personal cars would carry food from farms to the cities etc...

Also eastern europeans and russians are pretty resilient in maintaining old but rugged and simple appliances or cars or TVs.

Most russian immigrants to the US were bewildered by the lack of spring mattresses for beds for example... since in America a perfectly mattress is always trashed even if a few springs are out.

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'A')ctually Cas I have done quite a bit of reading on the Russian collapse. What saved them was their Dacha's, and gardens. When communism collapsed there wasn't even food. Under communism they could not feed themselves. But the workers had been growing their own food for years at their summer Dacha's. This is what kept them alive. A lesson to be learned here.

[Cid_Yama]

<i>But the workers had been growing their own food for years at their summer Dacha's.</i>

What?! LOL, yeah the workers got summer homes.

[Micki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'A')ctually Cas I have done quite a bit of reading on the Russian collapse. What saved them was their Dacha's, and gardens. When communism collapsed there wasn't even food. Under communism they could not feed themselves. But the workers had been growing their own food for years at their summer Dacha's. This is what kept them alive. A lesson to be learned here.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Micki', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('deMolay', 'A')ctually Cas I have done quite a bit of reading on the Russian collapse. What saved them was their Dacha's, and gardens. When communism collapsed there wasn't even food. Under communism they could not feed themselves. But the workers had been growing their own food for years at their summer Dacha's. This is what kept them alive. A lesson to be learned here.