[smallpoxgirl]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'I')f you are telling us to prepare to live off the land, to return to a subsistance level, why do you not prepare for such an existance by moving to a locality where such is the norm?

[Quinny]

If I can I will and fully intend to move, I'm fortunate in being able to if I can sell my house. Some can't even afford the fare.

Many people on the forum already have and I'm grateful for the many lessons I've learned from their experiences.

The planning forum is full of good advice. If you don't want to listen, why are you here?

[Leanan]

Actually, quite a few doomers have moved out of the country, or are planning to. Mexico and Costa Rica seem to be particularly popular. And Europe - France, the Ukraine, Bulgaria, places like that.

Last I heard, Matt Savinar, the ultimate doomer, is preparing to move somewhere. He won't say where. (Doomers are paranoid, y'know. They won't necessarily tell you if they've moved, or where.) He's assuming that there will be nuclear war, and is looking at fallout maps, along with all the other things you consider for a post-peak hideaway.

Others are moving within the country - particularly to the southeast, and the northwest. With a few in the northeast (especially Vermont and Maine). If you really think the spit is going to hit the fan...you might not want to be a foreigner or outsider where you are. Good reason for even doomers to stay in their own countries, IMO.

[ProudFossil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'I') have issues with people who essentially say "Love it or leave it." If only it was that simple.
BTW did you know there's an "exit tax" if you wish to denounce your US citizenship? 30% tax on all assets....ouch >_<
There are 2 nations on this planet that sell "economic citizenship" and there's no capital gains tax. Both are in the Caribbean. Yes I've been doing my research.

[Cog]

I'm a doomer and I'm not leaving suburbia, at least not yet. There are a lot of different scenarios that are possible here and no one on the board knows for sure which one will play out.

But people here do discuss their prepping ideas and get input from others on how to best survive what we believe is coming. There is also the possibility that ProudFossil has not considered. Some of us have made plans that we do not discuss with anyone on any board. So take that into consideration as well.

Fast crash or slow crash. I hear theories on both sides of this continually. I'm not sure which one I believe at present. But if you understand Peak Oil and you understand what has been happening to the economic system of the USA for the past 30 years, a crash of some sort is inevitable. Part of my analysis of the timing of this crash, is to read this forum daily to see what others are saying and planning to do for it.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Snowrunner', 'T')o say that "in the end it will be fine" doesn't really account for the really really bad times until it gets there.

[ProudFossil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cashmere', 'Y')ou're not asking a question, and you know it. You're making a statement.
But you seem to be hesitant to make the statement. Just make the statement. What do you think of the people, like me, who are bashing what America has become? Tell me what you think, else I call you craven.

[Ludi]

I'm a doomer. Why don't I move? I moved here about a decade ago, so I don't feel like moving again, as things are just finally getting sorted out (I'm a slow worker). I like this area, although it is a challenging environment.

People should try to live where they feel comfortable. Some people like the city and should probably live there, others like small towns, others the country, a few like the wilderness. Most people like what is familiar. I spent my youth in this area so it feels familiar to me. My family lives in the region.

[frankthetank]

I think what pushed me over the edge was Katrina and New Orleans after she hit. That could be Chicago, Nashville, Phoenix, Las Vegas, etc... I like living in my small town and i'm not moving to Africa. Why would i want to do that? I'd go to a 1000 different places before i'd go to a country where i'm a skinny white guy surrounding by lots and lots on skinny not white guys. Closest thing for me is Canada, so maybe i would run there. They seem like nice people

Flushing toilets are overrated, but hot showers...probably couldn't go on without them.

[Daculling]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '2'). They do really believe in the massive die-off, chaos, lawlessness, etc., but are too damn lazy or comfortable in their present existance to really do anything about it.

[Tyler_JC]

I'm seriously considering emigrating for the first time in my life.

I thought I could continue to live in the United States but the events of the past several months have begun to convince me otherwise. I can't leave for another two years but after that, I see ever fewer reasons to stick around this place.

The situation could change for the better and I pray that it does. But everything seems to be getting worse all the time.

I am usually pretty optimistic (especially in comparison to the doomers of this forum) but that's starting to change.

I see the window of opportunity slowing creeping shut. I think if you haven't left the US by 2015...you ain't getting out at all.

[ReverseEngineer]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m a doomer. Why don't I move? I moved here about a decade ago, so I don't feel like moving again, as things are just finally getting sorted out (I'm a slow worker). I like this area, although it is a challenging environment.
People should try to live where they feel comfortable. Some people like the city and should probably live there, others like small towns, others the country, a few like the wilderness. Most people like what is familiar. I spent my youth in this area so it feels familiar to me. My family lives in the region.

[cube]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '.')..I am not saying "Love it or leave it". I am asking why not prepare for the predicted disaster. ...

[beamofthewave]

I for one was in the Peace Corps in a village where the majority of the people lived at the subsistence level and firmly believe the USA is headed that way, unfortunately. The perfect society was when FDR was in charge of the USA and told the corporations what they were going to do and when and how they were going to do it. Truman was Vice Pres and investigated stealing from the government and the government wasnt just some piggy bank for the rich to steal from anytime they wanted. The people of the USA were citizens and not consumers and didnt live to profit the corporations only to be discarded when no more profit could be wrung from them.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ReverseEngineer', 'F')or the folks who choose the Cities or the Suburbs, I can only say I see this as a very bad choice.

[idiom]

I got out. The routine fingerprinting by the Thousands Standing Around got to me in the end.

Lots of Jews chose to remain in Germany after 1933. Why?!? The warning signs are all around you now.

[Leanan]

I agree with Greer. The collapse will be slow. So slow that we who are alive now may never see bottom. And the right choice for a fast crash could be the wrong one for a slow collapse.

I think the city or the right suburb could be a good choice for a slow collapse. Rome took 400 years to fall.

Tainter found that as collapse approached, people clustered closer to the cities. Not just Rome, but other collapses as well. The cities were the last vestige of civilization, where the government provided food, etc. And those on isolated farms and villages were vulnerable to attack.

I could see something similar happening in the US. Sure, if there's an overnight crash, you don't want to be in a city. But if it's a slow crash? Do you really want to be at the end of the supply line? The ones who don't have food and electricity and gasoline and medical care while others do?

[Cloud9]

The hinterlands are the head waters of the supply line. Lose them and you lose the city.

[Snowrunner]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'I') don't think I recall using the word "fine". But my point is that any hardships felt here, will be felt in other places just as hard, but without the natural overabundance and built out infrastructure that exists in the US.

[Leanan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', 'T')he hinterlands are the head waters of the supply line. Lose them and you lose the city.