Donate Bitcoin

Donate Paypal


PeakOil is You

PeakOil is You

GPT4 Artificial Intelligence Online

What's on your mind?
General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 02:09:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Q')uite right. A civilization is capable of turning all the matter in the galaxy towards its goals, but cant create matter from nothing. What is your argument?

The drug which you are using is certainly making much damage to your brain.

This is your rebuttal?

Well, your statement is so silly, that one even don't know, how to respond to it.

Presumably you are talking about baryonic mass at least...
About 90-95% of galactic mass is in form of dark matter.

So out of this baryonic mass about half (you should check for exact number) is in form of interstellar gas & dust.
I have no idea how one can make use of that...

Out of about 100 billion of stars in Milky Way about 90% are dim objects of about 10% of Solar mass, usually light years away from other stars and yet essentially devoid of habitable zones.
It is not clear what use these could have for any kind of civilization.

Needless to say there would be a significant engineering challenges in using mass of any star solely for civilization goals, so here we are. :-D

What about planets (tiny fraction of % of total galactic mass)?
What use mass of Jupiter or Saturn could possibly have?
Source of hydrogen to fuel hydrogen economy? :-D

At least you could make a good use of galactic center (Segetarius A) It could work as a giant particle accelerator. :-D :-D :-D

Frankly speaking I was never expecting that you will write such idiocy, as the one which I commented on above.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 02:14:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Kunstler could at least write a satirical Clusterf*ck Nation piece on the Singularity and the Global Catastrophic Risk Conference which just might elicit some response from them. But he's not feeling cocky enough.

Why Kunstler (or whoever) should waste his time to dispute some nonsense is beyond me.

It is about as clever as going into dispute with Flat Earthers, victims of Alien obduction or 9/11 "truthers".
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Carlhole » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 03:46:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Kunstler could at least write a satirical Clusterf*ck Nation piece on the Singularity and the Global Catastrophic Risk Conference which just might elicit some response from them. But he's not feeling cocky enough.

Why Kunstler (or whoever) should waste his time to dispute some nonsense is beyond me.

It is about as clever as going into dispute with Flat Earthers, victims of Alien obduction or 9/11 "truthers".


I am arguing with a complete idiot if you insist on comparing flat-earthers to the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE), or to IBM's Blue Brain Project, or to the Chief Technology Officer at Intel Corporation or to any of all the top scientists featured in the IEEE's recent issue of The Spectrum:

IEEE Spectrum: The Singularity

What makes you more credible than the IEEE?
Carlhole
 
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Carlhole » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 04:42:02

[web]http://singularity.com/themovie/[/web]

NEW MOVIE: The Singularity Is Nearcoming soon to a theatre near you.
Carlhole
 

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Carlhole » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 05:15:48

[align=center]Image[/align]

I have an 8 1/2" carriage return.


...you know you want me.
Carlhole
 

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby outcast » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 05:47:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Kunstler could at least write a satirical Clusterf*ck Nation piece on the Singularity and the Global Catastrophic Risk Conference which just might elicit some response from them. But he's not feeling cocky enough.

Why Kunstler (or whoever) should waste his time to dispute some nonsense is beyond me.

It is about as clever as going into dispute with Flat Earthers, victims of Alien obduction or 9/11 "truthers".



IEEE has thousands of highly intelligent professional electrical & computer engineers and scientists, AKA, people who know what the fuck they are talking about. For them to recognize that this will happen sooner or later is a big deal.

What is nonsensical is the neo-luddite doomerism that many people on this site have. Innovation is slowing down! The world is falling apart! We're going to run out of everything in 10 years! The sky is falling! DDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!1111111oneoneoneone

:P
User avatar
outcast
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon 21 Apr 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 06:54:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Kunstler could at least write a satirical Clusterf*ck Nation piece on the Singularity and the Global Catastrophic Risk Conference which just might elicit some response from them. But he's not feeling cocky enough.

Why Kunstler (or whoever) should waste his time to dispute some nonsense is beyond me.

It is about as clever as going into dispute with Flat Earthers, victims of Alien obduction or 9/11 "truthers".


I am arguing with a complete idiot if you insist on comparing flat-earthers to the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE), or to IBM's Blue Brain Project, or to the Chief Technology Officer at Intel Corporation or to any of all the top scientists featured in the IEEE's recent issue of The Spectrum:

No amount of computing can alter physical reality of surrounding world.
Regardless of that simple fact there are still imbeciles, who believe so. :)
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Carlhole » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 07:20:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')Kunstler could at least write a satirical Clusterf*ck Nation piece on the Singularity and the Global Catastrophic Risk Conference which just might elicit some response from them. But he's not feeling cocky enough.

Why Kunstler (or whoever) should waste his time to dispute some nonsense is beyond me.

It is about as clever as going into dispute with Flat Earthers, victims of Alien obduction or 9/11 "truthers".


I am arguing with a complete idiot if you insist on comparing flat-earthers to the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE), or to IBM's Blue Brain Project, or to the Chief Technology Officer at Intel Corporation or to any of all the top scientists featured in the IEEE's recent issue of The Spectrum:

No amount of computing can alter physical reality of surrounding world.
Regardless of that simple fact there are still imbeciles, who believe so. :)


Information processing does not require gobs and gobs of energy. Nature has proven this.

What these scientists are trying to do is to reverse engineer what has already been done in nature.

If the world runs into energy problems, then we will begin to lose those things which are incredibly energy intensive - like moving 3000 lb hunks of steel around the interstate highway system.

Instead, we will do a much more energy efficient thing and move information around instead of masses. This necessity will only provide further impetus to process information in an extraordinarily advanced way.

Even if human numbers must decline in the 21st century as ASPO says, history shows that technology advances during times of high stress.

Oil isn't running out tomorrow. And if the world's oil production peaks and shows a 4-5% decline on average, that will still allow plenty of room for innovation and adaptation. In a real bad crunch, not everyone may survive, but that's not the point. Tough times will be the mother of invention as never before.

Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Earth's population decline. There are too many people. But I don't see any forces out there which will reverse the profound human need to solve problems. And that is what technology is - problem solving.

If you think that problem solving is dependent on our version of a consumer society, you're wrong. There will be Science as long as there are questions.
Carlhole
 
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby TWilliam » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 15:18:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he intertwined B-line is the story of Ramona, Ray Kurzweil’s female alter ego, starting with actual footage of Kurzweil creating and demonstrating his virtual creation at the 2001 TED (Technology, Entertainment, Design) conference, where Ray -- as Ramona -- sang Jefferson Airplane’s “White Rabbit.” This presentation was the inspiration for the Warner Brothers’ movie Simone, where the character played by Al Pacino turns himself into Simone, just as Ray turned himself into Ramona at TED.
The B-line continues as Ramona goes into the future where she becomes more and more humanlike and independent, a Pinocchio story. She combats an attack of self-replicating nanobots (gray goo) and hires Alan Dershowitz (who plays himself ) to press for her legal rights as a “person.” The judge rules that he will grant her full legal personhood if she passes a “Turing test,” in which she must appear indistinguishable from an actual human in a text conversation. She gets coaching from Tony Robbins (who plays himself ) to become “more human.” The story continues from here. . . .
This is bullshit....this stuff is outta this vorld Irving...Carlhole passing his future fantasies off as empirical science is less credible than me linking myth and ancient symbols to science and to the past.

Sounds more like a weak re-tooling of Bicentennial Man, based on Isaac Asimov's novella of the same name, to me (good film btw)...
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
User avatar
TWilliam
Expert
Expert
 
Posts: 2591
Joined: Sun 28 Nov 2004, 04:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Dezakin » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 17:48:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Q')uite right. A civilization is capable of turning all the matter in the galaxy towards its goals, but cant create matter from nothing. What is your argument?

The drug which you are using is certainly making much damage to your brain.

This is your rebuttal?

Well, your statement is so silly, that one even don't know, how to respond to it.

Presumably you are talking about baryonic mass at least...
About 90-95% of galactic mass is in form of dark matter.

Now you're being pedantic. I merely meant that any civilization that develops artificial intelligence isn't limited to one star, and will exploit all physically possible avenues of engineering to expand. In time this swallows much of the dense baryonic matter in the galaxy.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ut of about 100 billion of stars in Milky Way about 90% are dim objects of about 10% of Solar mass, usually light years away from other stars and yet essentially devoid of habitable zones.
It is not clear what use these could have for any kind of civilization.
Why would machines care about habitable zones?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'F')rankly speaking I was never expecting that you will write such idiocy, as the one which I commented on above.
I don't think you appreciate the consequences of engineering intelligence. For a start it means not being limited by biology.
User avatar
Dezakin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: Wed 09 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Dezakin » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 17:52:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') am arguing with a complete idiot if you insist on comparing flat-earthers to the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers (IEEE), or to IBM's Blue Brain Project, or to the Chief Technology Officer at Intel Corporation or to any of all the top scientists featured in the IEEE's recent issue of The Spectrum:

No amount of computing can alter physical reality of surrounding world.
Regardless of that simple fact there are still imbeciles, who believe so. :)

The motor cortex of the human brain seems the most obvious counterexample of that. I know you like one liners, but you really should be more verbose about what you're trying to argue, because I cant tell what you're trying to say besides being contrary.
User avatar
Dezakin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: Wed 09 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby gampy » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 20:06:10

Hey fellas (and fillys),

Sorry if this might be a little off-topic, but have A.I. researchers ever tried getting their Big Blues (or whatever computing machines they have devised) to create art? Or music? I would imagine that this would be indicative of a higher intelligence. Well...not necessarily higher, but more akin to human intelligence. I would surmise that art requires emotion, and logic together.

Also, what is the most recent technological "game-changer"?

By that I mean something like the transistor, or silicon chip.

I am trying to think of an innovation in the last five years that might move us further along this path to SINGULARITY.
"Some people are like Slinky's. They don't serve a useful purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs."
User avatar
gampy
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri 27 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Soviet Canada

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby mos6507 » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 20:47:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '
')Now you're being pedantic. I merely meant that any civilization that develops artificial intelligence isn't limited to one star, and will exploit all physically possible avenues of engineering to expand. In time this swallows much of the dense baryonic matter in the galaxy.


Wrong. A civilization that has truly reached the next level will realize that infinite expansion is a dead-end and will try to reach a safe stasis point. If they need to "exploit" another star it will be because the current one is burning out, not that they have outgrown the solar system's carrying capacity.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I don't think you appreciate the consequences of engineering intelligence. For a start it means not being limited by biology.


But you're still limited by available energy.
mos6507
 
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Carlhole » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 20:52:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gampy', 'H')ey fellas (and fillys),

Sorry if this might be a little off-topic, but have A.I. researchers ever tried getting their Big Blues (or whatever computing machines they have devised) to create art? Or music? I would imagine that this would be indicative of a higher intelligence. Well...not necessarily higher, but more akin to human intelligence. I would surmise that art requires emotion, and logic together.

Also, what is the most recent technological "game-changer"?

By that I mean something like the transistor, or silicon chip.

I am trying to think of an innovation in the last five years that might move us further along this path to SINGULARITY.


Off the top of my head, I can think of the "cell phone language translator" that Kurzweil demonstrated to the audience at the 2006 Singularity conference. It seemed to work pretty well except that it was too slow. It seemed to be near product stage though. If it were working as promised, an English-speaker could talk to a Mandarin-speaker with only a little delay time.

The other thing that I'm interested in hearing about is the parallel programming initiative that was formed earlier this year. In the immediate future, PC's will come equipped with multiple processors and GPU's -- not just two or 4 processors, but 8, 16, 32, etc.

The problem is, parallel programming software is very difficult and complex to write - at least for the average applications programmer out there. So there is a big push on to correct this deficiency so that applications can take advantage of all the immense processing power enabled by multiple processors.

The IBM Blue Brain Project has completed Phase 1 of it's virtual replication of the human neocortical column. They have taken 50 nanometer slices of a human neocortex and scanned the entire neuron matrix into a cyberspace. The idea here is to have a functioning virtual human neocortical column working in real-time, run on super-computers. The researchers would be able to observe how the virtual neurons fire and coordinate with one another to form memories and concepts and things. I mean, THAT is pushing the envelope hard! I can't wait to hear more about THAT!

So, I'm sure we'll be hearing about other game changers in at the Singularity Summit 2008. It wouldn't be any fun if there were no red meat to throw at all the ravenously hungry nerds!

[web]http://singularity.com/themovie/[/web]

NEW MOVIE: The Singularity Is Nearcoming soon to a theatre near you.
Carlhole
 
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby outcast » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 20:59:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')orry if this might be a little off-topic, but have A.I. researchers ever tried getting their Big Blues (or whatever computing machines they have devised) to create art? Or music? I would imagine that this would be indicative of a higher intelligence. Well...not necessarily higher, but more akin to human intelligence. I would surmise that art requires emotion, and logic together.



They were able to get one to defeat a russian chess champion. True artificial intelligence has proven to be elusive, but the results of the Blue Brain project will likely lead to several breakthroughs in the future.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')lso, what is the most recent technological "game-changer"?

By that I mean something like the transistor, or silicon chip.

I am trying to think of an innovation in the last five years that might move us further along this path to SINGULARITY.


Moore's law. 5 years ago it was impossible to make multi core processors with hundreds of millions of transistors available to the common person.

In the future nano and/or optical processors and circuitry will likely take over, although this make take 10-15 years.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')But you're still limited by available energy.


That is a much easier problem to solve than pushing biological limitations.
User avatar
outcast
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon 21 Apr 2008, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby gampy » Tue 02 Sep 2008, 22:15:44

Hmmmm...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem is, parallel programming software is very difficult and complex to write - at least for the average applications programmer out there. So there is a big push on to correct this deficiency so that applications can take advantage of all the immense processing power enabled by multiple processors.


Lol, I am sure there are more than a few kids working on this as we speak.

One thing that has fascinated me is the internet. The vast potential, I mean. We have all heard of the SETI project, which used distributed processing amongst a slew of people's home PC's.

I wonder if the web itself will play a role, or what kind of role, in attaining singularity.

Look at denial of service attacks. Fascinating, and so clever. Just as a virus is fascinating, and clever. And malicious. Imagine an A.I with web access. Oh noes...more negative implications there.
"Some people are like Slinky's. They don't serve a useful purpose, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs."
User avatar
gampy
Tar Sands
Tar Sands
 
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri 27 Oct 2006, 03:00:00
Location: Soviet Canada
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Dezakin » Wed 03 Sep 2008, 00:21:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '
')Now you're being pedantic. I merely meant that any civilization that develops artificial intelligence isn't limited to one star, and will exploit all physically possible avenues of engineering to expand. In time this swallows much of the dense baryonic matter in the galaxy.


Wrong. A civilization that has truly reached the next level will realize that infinite expansion is a dead-end and will try to reach a safe stasis point. If they need to "exploit" another star it will be because the current one is burning out, not that they have outgrown the solar system's carrying capacity.

Really theres no way for us to know what the motives of gods are, but I cant think of any reason why they would ignore the opportunities of expanding to the limits.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')I don't think you appreciate the consequences of engineering intelligence. For a start it means not being limited by biology.


But you're still limited by available energy.

Of course. But when you're discussing 20 orders of magnitude larger than todays civilization, you're in a slightly different game.
User avatar
Dezakin
Heavy Crude
Heavy Crude
 
Posts: 1569
Joined: Wed 09 Feb 2005, 04:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 03 Sep 2008, 01:57:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '
')If the world runs into energy problems, then we will begin to lose those things which are incredibly energy intensive - like moving 3000 lb hunks of steel around the interstate highway system.

Maintenance of manufacturing infrastructure which is a prerequisite for high tech industry to function is also incredibly energy intensive.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')nstead, we will do a much more energy efficient thing and move information around instead of masses. This necessity will only provide further impetus to process information in an extraordinarily advanced way.

Again, moving information around will not change surrounding physical reality.
Knowledge which cannot be applied in practice is essentially useless.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')ven if human numbers must decline in the 21st century as ASPO says, history shows that technology advances during times of high stress.

History is rather showing that during times of high stress technology may well collapse (Egyptians, Romans, Mayans, Byzanthians, to name few).

Issues related to high stress are frequently dealt with by substantial wars.
So do you think that after WW III (which is a very likely outcome of developing turmoil) you will have much technology left to fiddle with?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')ough times will be the mother of invention as never before.

Or a mother of atomic war.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')ersonally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Earth's population decline. There are too many people. But I don't see any forces out there which will reverse the profound human need to solve problems. And that is what technology is - problem solving.
You will find many problems insolvable, regardless of your level of knowledge.
You will not solve resource depletion related issues, climatic mess, you will fail to keep ahead of bugs for much longer (actually development of resistant strains is currently overwhelming ability of science to respond) and you will fail to resolve societal problems related to above.
And yet prosperous, stable society immersed in abundance is a prerequisite for scientific progress to continue.

Failing that you will only carry on some development of military applications, and don't be mistaken here - these *are* going to be used at some point and annihilate your research centers, sufficient time and societal stress given.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f you think that problem solving is dependent on our version of a consumer society, you're wrong. There will be Science as long as there are questions.
No.
It is you who are wrong.

Without thriving consumer society IBM is simply going to get bankrupt.

For science to thrive adequate funding is needed.
No funding means no science.
Billions of destitutes will rather think about filling stomachs first than about science.
It is not a coincidence that consumerist, hedonistic societies are also most proficient in science.
I would go further here and say that progress of science is only a mere byproduct of abundance.

And if they are still some *questions* and yet no sufficient funding is available then science will be replaced with religion.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby Carlhole » Wed 03 Sep 2008, 02:59:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'F')or science to thrive adequate funding is needed. No funding means no science.
Billions of destitutes will rather think about filling stomachs first than about science. It is not a coincidence that consumerist, hedonistic societies are also most proficient in science. I would go further here and say that progress of science is only a mere byproduct of abundance.


Well, then the burden of proof falls on YOU to show that to be true. It sounds like you've been drinking an awful lot of kool-aid.

Unimaginable quantities of energy stream at us every second from that big hot ball in the sky. You make it sound as if ALL energy available to human beings will suddenly blink off in a few short years when oil begins to deplete. That is not the case.

And while energy supplies might present a significant problem for people, it will NOT mean that we enter a new stone-age and forget everything we knew before. That is just childish rubbish.
Carlhole
 
Top

Re: The Singularity Summit 2008

Postby EnergyUnlimited » Wed 03 Sep 2008, 13:31:51

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('EnergyUnlimited', 'F')or science to thrive adequate funding is needed. No funding means no science.
Billions of destitutes will rather think about filling stomachs first than about science. It is not a coincidence that consumerist, hedonistic societies are also most proficient in science. I would go further here and say that progress of science is only a mere byproduct of abundance.


Well, then the burden of proof falls on YOU to show that to be true. It sounds like you've been drinking an awful lot of kool-aid.

So what?
Do you think, it is possible to have a science without funding?
Silly girl.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'U')nimaginable quantities of energy stream at us every second from that big hot ball in the sky.

Yes, but that will be useful for only limited number of applications and far more expensive than current energy is.
I also wonder, how are you going to make items like cement, steel or polymers with solar power alone.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')ou make it sound as if ALL energy available to human beings will suddenly blink off in a few short years when oil begins to deplete. That is not the case.

Agreed.
But there will be less surplus.
Generating ability will rather go down, not up and meantime there will be more and more peoples to feed.
That is until dieoff with societal collapse, wars, destitution, possible atomic war sets in.

You may like it or not, but science is fed on that surplus, unless it is for military purpose.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd while energy supplies might present a significant problem for people, it will NOT mean that we enter a new stone-age and forget everything we knew before. That is just childish rubbish.
There are far many more issues, than energy alone.

Growing population, climate change, soil depletion, pollution of environment, fresh water depletion, depletion of elements essential to high tech (gallium, indium, platinides, lanthanides, hafnium, rhenium, and few others) are just few looming issues related to limits on progress.
User avatar
EnergyUnlimited
Light Sweet Crude
Light Sweet Crude
 
Posts: 7537
Joined: Mon 15 May 2006, 03:00:00
Top

PreviousNext

Return to Open Topic Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron