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Its too bad the rest of the world is jealous of America

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Postby bart » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 19:37:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Liamj', 's')erfs-in-denial

Nice phrase, Liamj. I'm afraid that's how it is for folks in America. In many ways, the US is a worse place than it was in 1976. People work longer hours; they have less security; the average IQ seems to have dropped 15 points.

But boy are we proud of our flag and our Dear Leader!

We lack control over our lives, so we seek comfort in feeling part of a powerful righteous country that Kicks Ass.

This, of course, is the recipe for fascism and Stalinism: melding one's individual ego with that of the State.

When I'm around regular people whose horizons are limited by the television screen, I have an impression of vulnerability, of a precarious psychic balance. It's going to be tough on many Americans when the bubble bursts -- emotionally as well as economically.
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Postby trespam » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 21:01:02

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', '
')
Perhaps it's just as well. As I reflect on the coming events, maybe some comic relief will be a treasure. :cry:


I engage in it. So I fully accept that I am often the kettle calling the pot black. We are all hypocrits in one way or another.
Last edited by trespam on Wed 16 Mar 2005, 22:00:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Phil » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 21:27:04

Specop is, by far, my least favorite regular poster. I find it peculiar that a regular poster at a site such as this could repeatedly make such moronic and ignorant posts.

He's basically a clueless retard who does a lot more talking than listening, or thinking.
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Postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 21:36:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('linlithgowoil', '
')i think this is the main reason why people get annoyed at america. americans see no problem with the fact that they are 5% of world population who use 25% of world resources. anyone that can see nothing wrong with that actually has something wrong with them.
And the amazing thing about it is that we don't really have the money to pay for all those resources. So we send out IOUs and keep getting the 25%! Uncanny.
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Postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 21:55:25

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('GD', '
')B) They are taking steps to protect themselves from the coming train wreck of the American economic implosion.

C) They're jealous of your planes, tanks, subs and nukes!
There is a dark side to this and you get it when you put B & C together. It will probably wreck American Democracy and then we really will go Imperial as a survival measure. Corrupt human nature being what it is and the times are bad from a morale standpoint - the New American Soldier will listen to mind numbing metal music, eat martial drugs, and wield the deadliest Military Machine built in History. Spooky.
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Postby Kingcoal » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 22:08:03

Can't we all just get along? This site is full of so much Europe vs. USA crap and yes, most of it is crap. Let's get some things straight:

1. The Euro will not unseat dollar hegemony unless the EU starts going on a huge buying binge. You can't just keep raising interest rates, you have to follow through with some aggressive shopping behavior. Otherwise, you're just another mercantilist economy among many hoping to sell your goods to others.

2. EU countries have to start growing their economies. The US is heavily in debt, but not as much as most European countries when gauging GDP/debt.

If you want to be a playa, you have to play the game right.
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Postby DriveElectric » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 22:35:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phil', 'S')pecop is, by far, my least favorite regular poster. I find it peculiar that a regular poster at a site such as this could repeatedly make such moronic and ignorant posts.

He's basically a clueless retard who does a lot more talking than listening, or thinking.


I think this is one of the more entertaining threads I have seen on PO.com since I started reading.
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Postby Liamj » Wed 16 Mar 2005, 22:53:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'C')an't we all just get along? This site is full of so much Europe vs. USA crap ...snip


IF thats what you see conflict as, then yes its crap, but the conflict is bigger than that. Its between 'our way or the highway' growth capitalism (and its bastard child, what Heinbergs called the 'last man standing' strategy) & every other mode of being (democracy, self reliant nationalism, socialism, indigenous polycultures, bioregional sustainability, ...). Hence antiglobalisation movement, landless peasant movements in majority world, insurgencies in Columbia, Mexico, Indonesia (West Papua AND Aceh), Iraq, .... .

Not only does the neoliberal emperor have no clothes, his press office is a laughing stock & his mercenaries are stretched very thin. Wolfowitz(-less) for World Bank head is actually good news, will expose WB as just another tool of the planetfuckers. There's still many devotees for the Market God view in Europe, Asia, everywhere, and they'll portray any attempt to adapt that curtails market (read money) power as jealousy/luddism/ecoradicalism/communism/terrorism etc etc.

Reminds me of graff seen 2 yrs ago, "The evolution will not be terrorised". Well, it IS being terrorised (portrayed as terrifying, irrational, & nothing to do with me/us), but that, like SO's bravado, will be just another tiny footnote on histories page.
So 'Just get along'? How does one just get along with a system that is appropriating, and WASTING, the very resources we will all soon req just to survive?
Representing this as 'US vs. Euro' is just wedge politics & misses ALL the signif points.
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Postby Specop_007 » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 14:43:07

And an interesting 4 pages its been.
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
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Postby Njegosh » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 15:24:19

@Specop
Interesting how?
serious i'm curious. 8)
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Postby trespam » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 16:10:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DriveElectric', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phil', 'S')pecop is, by far, my least favorite regular poster. I find it peculiar that a regular poster at a site such as this could repeatedly make such moronic and ignorant posts.

He's basically a clueless retard who does a lot more talking than listening, or thinking.


I think this is one of the more entertaining threads I have seen on PO.com since I started reading.


In a childish way. It keeps the kids entertained while the grownups are out making money I suppose.
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Postby Specop_007 » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 20:02:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DriveElectric', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Phil', 'S')pecop is, by far, my least favorite regular poster. I find it peculiar that a regular poster at a site such as this could repeatedly make such moronic and ignorant posts.

He's basically a clueless retard who does a lot more talking than listening, or thinking.


I think this is one of the more entertaining threads I have seen on PO.com since I started reading.


In a childish way. It keeps the kids entertained while the grownups are out making money I suppose.


This from the guy who cant even figure out how old he is. Funny. :lol:
"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the
Abyss, the Abyss gazes also into you."

Ammo at a gunfight is like bubblegum in grade school: If you havent brought enough for everyone, you're in trouble
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Postby CalgaryEng » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 20:46:45

Malthus, excellent post.

It would never occur to me to be jealous of the US. I have visited there (actually I was born there) and there is not much to be jealous of. Americans tend to have a highly inflated view of themselves.

The link Malthus gave to the article by the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal is worth reading. For many years I subscribed to their periodical, "The Skeptical Inquirer." My impression from this and other reading has lead me to believe that the US certainly deserves top spot for having the most ignorant population on the planet among industrial nations. Given the extreme wealth of the US, its "free press", and now access to the Internet, this degree of ignorance and sheer stupidity is all the more reprehensible.

I think jealous is the wrong word. I think a lot of people including myself regard the US as pathetic. Under the great leadership of morons like George Bush, I think that many people expect the US to slide into the status of a third world country fairly rapidly. Face it, if you really look around the US, a lot of it is already third world. From what I have read, most nations are carefully shedding their US Dollars. They know a sinking ship when they see one, but understand that they must take great care to let the ship sink as slowly aand smoothly as possible.

One of my favorite current commentators on the US is Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. You can find his articles on www.counterpunch.org. Read a few and one begins to understand that no one in their right mind envies the US.
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Postby trespam » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 21:20:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CalgaryEng', '
')One of my favorite current commentators on the US is Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. You can find his articles on www.counterpunch.org. Read a few and one begins to understand that no one in their right mind envies the US.


Roberts has been writing some fantastic material. He should be required reading for conservatives in the US (of which Roberts counts himself). The fanatics and crazies are currently in control.

But....From a long-term perspective, the Europeans have nothing up on the US. This is not anti-European. In the last hundred fifty years, if we look at the world, the US fought several wars in support of freedom in Europe (and perhaps went a little overboard with Vietnam and trying to control latin american countries). During the same time period, we also freed the slaves and gave the vote to women. OK, we held onto slavery a little longer than we should have. We're a little slow. But I think the direction was in general good. And yes, we did steal some nice property from Mexico. I happen to live in some of it here in San Diego. I agree we basically stole it (bargaining with a large gun in mexico's face), but at this point: I ain't given it up.

During the same time period, let see: the Russians managed to starve a significant part of their population. The continental countries managed to fight two highly destructive wars, with one of the wars involving the mass slaughter of ethnically identifiable people, meaning Jews. The Chinese managed to also starve a large percentage of their population. While the Japanese managed to invade said China and slaughter a large number of them. And Korea had already been a source for forced prostutition into Japan. And finally, Europe was working real hard during this time period to totally fuck up the middle east. Thanks europe.

So in summary: while I find the pro-Bush fanatics about as stupid as the McCarthyites, I am much happier that America has the power than many of the other countries in the world. They don't have a very good track record.

That said, the US is in for a bit of a comeuppance in the future. We're living beyond our means. Oh well. You win some, and you lose some.
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Postby smiley » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 21:40:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kingcoal', 'C')an't we all just get along? This site is full of so much Europe vs. USA crap and yes, most of it is crap. Let's get some things straight:

1. The Euro will not unseat dollar hegemony unless the EU starts going on a huge buying binge. You can't just keep raising interest rates, you have to follow through with some aggressive shopping behavior. Otherwise, you're just another mercantilist economy among many hoping to sell your goods to others.

2. EU countries have to start growing their economies. The US is heavily in debt, but not as much as most European countries when gauging GDP/debt.


OK let's get the facts straight. According to the pre-Bush definition of GDP (the one that they still use in Europe) the US federal debt is now at 80% GDP and growing at an annualized rate of 8%. According to the Pre-Bush definition of GDP the US economic growth less than one percent.

Just today, the US treasury added $20 billion in new debt. Over first half of this fiscal year it has added $400 billion in new debt, which means that they probably end up with a budged deficit between $800 and $900 billion dollars. That is $800 billion of overspending on a $1500 billion budged.

Just consider this: The US federal debt alone is twice the size of the net worth of all the oil reserves in Saudi Arabia. The total debt and liabilities of America are approaching the net worth of all the remaining oil in the world.

Face it the US is a debt junkie, it is drowning in debt and it will collapse if it isn't collapsing already.

Look. I don't want to engage in a pissing contest. I have no grudge against the US, against you, or anyone. I also don't want to glorify Europe. But least of all I want the US to collapse.

Because our futures are inevitably linked. If you fall, we fall.

Our great frustration is that we cannot do anything about it and the US refuses to do anything about it. Your government seems to be set on committing economic suicide with us in the passenger seat.
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Postby trespam » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 22:30:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '
')Our great frustration is that we cannot do anything about it and the US refuses to do anything about it. Your government seems to be set on committing economic suicide with us in the passenger seat.


This is because Bush's daddy's friends always bailed him out when he was in trouble. He probably assumes that there will be someone to bail him out when his policies turn out to be a dry hole as well.

Ain't gonna be anyone to bail him out this time.
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Postby maverickdoc » Fri 18 Mar 2005, 22:30:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('smiley', '
')Our great frustration is that we cannot do anything about it and the US refuses to do anything about it. Your government seems to be set on committing economic suicide with us in the passenger seat.


This is because Bush's daddy's friends always bailed him out when he was in trouble. He probably assumes that there will be someone to bail him out when his policies turn out to be a dry hole as well.

Ain't gonna be anyone to bail him out this time.


Japan and China
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Postby trespam » Sat 19 Mar 2005, 00:03:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('maverickdoc', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('trespam', 'T')his is because Bush's daddy's friends always bailed him out when he was in trouble. He probably assumes that there will be someone to bail him out when his policies turn out to be a dry hole as well.

Ain't gonna be anyone to bail him out this time.


Japan and China


True, for now. Question is whether China plans to continue bailing us out or to finally bury us in all our worthless dollars.

And I do realize that Bush is not to blame for all these problems. He's just taken the bad direction the US was headed and put his foot on the accelerator. Isn't that just like a smart ass frat boy?
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Postby CalgaryEng » Sat 19 Mar 2005, 00:26:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')This is because Bush's daddy's friends always bailed him out when he was in trouble. He probably assumes that there will be someone to bail him out when his policies turn out to be a dry hole as well.


He and a significant part of the US population believes that the god thing they believe in will solve all their problems. Many fundamentalist christians welcome the turmoil in the world as signs that their god thing will soon sweep them up into heaven, punish the evil doers (athiests like me), and then create paradise on earth. I remain skeptical.
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Postby frankthetank » Sat 19 Mar 2005, 12:04:14

I've never been to Europe, so I can't really speak on how life is day to day there. For me, I like living here in the US. Its really a beautiful country if you get out into the country. If your a government employee its even better! Lots of vacation, excellent(cheap) benefits, good pay. I'm not positive, but i'm guessing most things are cheaper to buy here in the US vs. Europe.

Should Euros be jealous? I doubt it. I am an American, but my family is relatively new (coming over in early 1900's) from Germany. Shit, in my book most of us up here in the Midwest are Europeans (the smart ones! j/k) This country is a mixed bag, and overall most people are good(although a bit clueless about world events).

So don't go clumping all "Americans" into one group, we're a mixed bag :)
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