[Kingcoal]

It's all good IMO. Renewables used to make electricity generally require a huge scale. On the other hand, once built, they should be pretty cheap to keep going. Franks suggestion about putting a solar water heater on every roof makes too much sense though. It's relatively cheap and would save a lot of electricity and natural gas.

[copious.abundance]

Our post-carbon future. The Mojave Desert, circa 2050.

[Kingcoal]

After a couple years of thinking about it, the only savior for our economy and way of life is to devote all our resources towards a state of the art, renewable electrical grid. The funniest thing about it is that the idea goes all the way back to the Great Depression. FDR and his advisers threw us into the oil age after determining that the country could exploit it's abundant oil reserves to build infrastructure, creating jobs and lasting value (wealth.) The Hover dam is a lasting example of that period. That idea hung on until the Reagan administration, who changed the course of the country with a view that free markets should be fed with cheap oil and allowed to steer the country wherever it goes. Free markets have only short term tolerance for investment. That combined with the policy of the government, who now saw it's only role as maintaining cheap oil at almost all costs, produced our current predicament.

A growth based economy needs a feedstock. Our current feedstock; oil, is no longer cheap, so it is no longer a viable feedstock for an economy and has risen to being a part of the economy. Oil is now an asset to be invested in. That's why our economy is broken and continues to get worse. Cheap, abundant electricity can be the new 'oil' for a new economy. The problem with our current oil based economy is that it is based on a commodity that is not "limitless." Electricity is not limitless, but a huge scale renewable electrical grid is pretty close to it. Such an infrastructure could be depended on for hundreds of years because solar, wind, hydro, geothermal are all based on energy sources that are for our purposes, limitless once harnessed.

The big problem is that we should have started all this back in the '70's. The ironic thing is that I remember the big plans that were being discussed about projects like this back then. It all ended abruptly when Reagan took office. Saddam Hussein, backed by the CIA, rose to power in Iraq and accomplished his mission of going to war with Iran. Both countries, now embroiled in war, broke with OPEC and started producing and selling oil as fast as they could causing the '70's energy crisis to end.

Now, we are strapped. Any huge, country wide construction projects are going to have to be built with much more expensive oil. Also, we are going to have to compete with emerging economies like China for other resources. It's tough, but still doable IMO and it is inevitable because the alternative is simply slow death, as PO doomers have predicted.

How will super cheap, available electricity save us? Home heating would go 100% electric as would many other processes in industry which are currently fossil fuel supported. Just like cheap gasoline did in the early part of the last century, cheap electricity would reach into the transportation markets. Cheap electricity could be used to make liquid fuels, for example. Also, having an electrical engineering background, I have no doubt that advances in battery technology will eventually make electric cars a reality. We don't have to completely replace oil, that's a no brainer. We have plenty of oil left to support industry that makes products out of those hydrocarbons. What we have to do is stop BURNING oil, which has become akin to burning money. We burn well over 70%, probably in excess of 90% of all oil produced. In the future, that will be looked upon as complete insanity. Oil is very valuable as a feedstock for making products, petrochemicals, etc, not for burning up in internal combustion engines. Assuming we quit burning distillates completely, we have enough oil left over for hundreds of years probably.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'O')ur post-carbon future. The Mojave Desert, circa 2050.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'O')ur post-carbon future. The Mojave Desert, circa 2050.

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'O')ur post-carbon future. The Mojave Desert, circa 2050.

[burtonridr]

Great! Just what I needed

Now the price of solar panels are going to sky rocket

Might help our country in the long run though

[yesplease]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('burtonridr', 'G')reat! Just what I needed

Now the price of solar panels are going to sky rocket

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'O')ur post-carbon future. The Mojave Desert, circa 2050.

[emersonbiggins]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'O')ur post-carbon future. The Mojave Desert, circa 2050.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('emersonbiggins', 'T')hey've definitely got the setting right - looks like the Colorado River to me.

[burtonridr]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('burtonridr', 'G')reat! Just what I needed

Now the price of solar panels are going to sky rocket

[Cabrone]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')fter a couple years of thinking about it, the only savior for our economy and way of life is to devote all our resources towards a state of the art, renewable electrical grid.

[lorenzo]

Europe's idea can best be seen as an energy-internet, with every citizen being an uploader and a downloader.

Small renewables like biogas and solar PV, connected with larger renewable projects (biomass, wind, CSP), up to mega-projects (DESERTEC), all connected into a supergrid with a HVDC-backbone and countless capillary branches which receive massive uploads from citizens.

The biogas industry in Germany is one of the key examples which showed micro-scale feed-ins are very feasible.

An organic super-grid.

The Beginning is Obviously Near!!!

[darren]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cabrone', '
')Once you have the network you can bring your full range of renewables on line - plentiful solar in southern europe\north africa (huge resource), plentiful wind and wave in northern\western europe and biomass wherever there is availability.

The problem isn't with the amount of renewables (there's heaps of energy out there) it's the network and how you engineer it.

[seahorse]

I'm interested in these roof or wall mounted solar heaters, which supposedly up the temperature in a room by about 10 degrees or more. Does anyone have any experience with these or any comments?

Here is a link to the website, about halfway down, you will see the roof or outside wall mounted product I'm interested in.

Clear Dome Solar

[RdSnt]

Well, I don't see anything particularly interesting on the site.
They seem to be applying two well know products to their purposes and you can do that easily yourself, likely much cheaper.

The "Thermal Barrier Fabric" is normally called a scrim and is used by greenhouse operations to control amounts of light getting to plants. It comes in many levels of density and is cheap as dirt.

Their "Solar Blackfex " is a black matte finished aluminum foil. It's been around for decades and is most often used by live action film crews and live theater technicians. It's great for sealing light leaks and shaping high intensity lights. Again, quite cheap and pretty easy to get.

[seahorse]

The produce I was looking into is called the "Cleardome Solar Forced Air Heater."

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')learDome Solar Forced Air Heaters

Here's the most efficient way to stay cozy this winter and feel the warmth of pure, safe active solar heat... at home, at play, and at work. Our solar forced air heaters work at any elevation, at any temperature and even on light cloudy days.

50 - 70% of your yearly utility costs are spent on heating during winter months so you'll find this to be another affordable way to reduce expensive heating bills. They heat faster and warm larger spaces better than our Solar Heating Drapes mentioned above. When south facing sunlit windows aren't available for solar heating, our solar forced air panels can be wall or roof mounted so the warm air can be ducted into living spaces below. You can heat just an enclosed room or an entire home or office, depending on how many of our high quality solar air heating collectors you install, even during power outages!


We are one of only a handful of renewable energy companies in the world that design and sell high quality active solar forced air heaters for both residential and commercial use.
Our 6th generation Building Integrated Solar Forced Air heating panels, left, are designed for sunlit south facing wall mounts, in existing 16" standing seam metal roofs, and stand-alone installations as in this photo. Since they only weigh 3.5 pounds per linear foot, they are also ideal for RV's, boats, campers and remote uses.

We've combined the strength, durability and great looks of the metal framed Exterior panel and the affordability of the previous generation Low Profile panel into the new BISFA heating panel, which comes in three sizes. It's 30% hotter, and more efficient so you get more usable heat per dollar, since each 8' panel generates over 800 watts of heat energy using only the power of the sun. The internal solar heat absorber has been upgraded with a superior quality "selective surface" sheet of our new Ultra Blackflex solar heat collector that provides 95% solar absorption and .05 emissivity.

Mammoth Mountain Ski area in the California High Sierras has been using seven of our 4th generation Exterior forced air heating panels, seen in this photo, on their remote ski lift shacks on 10,000 foot high mountain ridges to increase warmth inside and reduce expensive heating costs. Each small building is subject to extreme temperatures (as low as -25 degrees F), high wind (110 mph+) and heavy hail and snow conditions unlike most other places on earth. After over four years of frequent use, we're confident they, and our newest, more durable BISFA panels can also withstand the most severe weather conditions.

The Building Integrated Solar Forced Air heat collectors are so affordable ($495-$875 each), you don't need a government tax rebate program to afford one of the most efficient (estimated 75-80%), least costly types of solar renewable energy products available for domestic use.

Generate off-the-gird, free hot air for your home when our optional custom 20 watt solar electric PV panel is used to power the fan that circulates the warm air.. . . even in extremely cold temperatures high in the mountains. They can also be mounted on RV's boats and trailor homes. Click for more details on our BISFA heating panels.

[kpeavey]

You are looking at a glass covered box with an air inlet and a hole in the wall. Sun warms air in box, warm air moves into hole in wall, fresh air drawn into box. Operates with convection. Its about as simple as it gets. At night, stuff a sock in the wall hole to prevent warm air loss from inside the house.

I built one with plywood, some lumber, black window screen and PVC pipe for the vent. I've measured temperatures as high as 175 degrees, hot enough to melt the urethane holding the double pane glass and aluminum frame. Later came the weed eater incident, have yet to replace the glass.

With simple tools and readily available parts you can build one in a couple of hours, even if you have poor carpentry skills. Doing it yourself you will find the glass to be the most expensive part. The $495-875 price on the things can easily be beat with DIY. Ask around, look in garages and basements for surplus glass doors or windows. Get the glass for free, the rest of the thing can be constructed for less than $50. Contact the guys at Lowe's and Home Depot who install windows and doors. They can get you big glass for cheap.

I added black window screen across the inside of the collector from the front top corner to the bottom back corner, all the way across. Sunlight enters the box, the screen absorbs the light, turns into heat, air moving through the absorber warms up more than using just the box. If I ever get around to it, adding aluminum foil to the back to reflect sunlight back to the absorber will give me yet more heat out of the thing.

Convection is slow. The amount of heat actually getting into the room will not be much with a passive system. It depends on the size of the vent and the rate of airflow. Bigger vent means more flow, but also lower temperatures can be achieved. You could try adding a small fan, from an old computer perhaps, to give the rig a big boost in airflow.

I see the rig in the picture is placed vertically on a wall. Giving the device a tilt of you lattitude+15 degrees will give you maximum solar exposure in the winter months when you need the most energy. This will add a few bucks to the cost of construction, but we're talking 20 bucks at most.

With some consideration ahead of time you can get a great deal of use out of such a device. In the summer, little heat is needed for your home. Take the box off the wall, add a compartment to the top where the vent is, you can use the compartment for dehydrating or cooking. You can run pipes or hoses through the device, get hot water for your bath. My bathwater is heated with the sun for 5 years now.

Keep going in the direction your research is taking you. Check out mirrors for more energy gain. Look up Fresnel lenses, parabolic and dish reflectors.

A big enough collector, an active system of heat exchange, combined with thermal storage can heat your entire house and provide all the hot water you can stand. Fuel cost=$0.00