[coyote]

Why Peleg... was that a pun?

[Peleg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'W')hy Peleg... was that a pun?

[coyote]

Hmmm... no hope? I suppose that depends on what we are hoping for. I hope that our society can be transformed by the collapse ahead of us. I hope that folks will truly come to understand what sustainability means.

That the disaster will humble our culture, and teach us that we are part of nature, and not above it, and that natural systems are not merely resources to be exploited and consumed. That we will go back to simpler ways, more in harmony with our fellow species, and less filled with hubris and short-sightedness.

That ultimately, hundreds or thousands of years from now, there will be a global human culture of real understanding. I hope to be one of many people who help these things to come about after I'm gone.

I also hope that the collapse will not devastate our environment so badly that these other things I hope for won't happen. Do I hope that the collapse itself won't happen? Nope. Not any more.

That would be an irrational hope.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'H')mmm... no hope? I suppose that depends on what we are hoping for. I hope that our society can be transformed by the collapse ahead of us. --snip--
Do I hope that the collapse itself won't happen? Nope. Not any more. That would be an irrational hope.

[coyote]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'T')hat is an almost poetic description of the doom of our civilization. You are a beautiful writer.
It would only be fitting if, hundreds or thousands of years from now, when the remaining humans have established a global human culture based on real understanding, sustainability, and goodness, that people will still gather around the campfires and sing the praises of Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who helped preserve those endangered oil deposits buried under thousands of feet of water and mud, many miles off the coastline and so hastened the arrival of the halcyon post-oil eco-paradise that the world will surely become. Namaste!

[ROCKMAN]

Actually flurry oil produced on federal lands cannot be exported out of the US w/o gov't permission. That has been rarely granted and then it was done more as a swap then a sale to save transportation costs. All oil from federal leases would be priced as per the market conditions. Also, the gov't would receive 1/6 of the oil as either a cash payment or they could take it in kind. Much of the SPR has been filled with in-kind oil. In 2007 the feds received over $6 billion in royalties from production on gov't lands. With the current prices that number should exceed $10 billion this year. The gov't is free to sell their millions of bbl of royalty oil at any price they want. So far your gov't has been satisfied to sell your oil to you for the same price ExxonMobil does.

That bit of news might piss off a few folks...if anyone in the MSM would bother to tell them.

[coyote]

Rockman, even if all the oil is all kept and sold in the U.S., wouldn't the effect on global oil prices be exactly the same as if it had been sold overseas?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', ' ') Plant, I suppose I got off topic. Thanks!

[dbruning]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')IKES!!! When did THIS happen?!

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Canuk', 'T')he likelihood of any major fields are low.
If we drill we will remove the fantasy - its like a lottery ticket until you check the numbers you could too be a millionaire...

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')f a bill giving some right to drill in expanded areas drives speculation out of oil and we end up back at $105 for a few years we have helped ourselves.

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'Y')ou wish to sell off the last remaining oil we have left just for the spectacular hope that speculators will ramp down their enthusiasm for a few years (days?) and prices will diminish 20-30$/barrel. Bah!

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', ' ')a paltry 1 or 2 extra million barrels that might or might not be produced will mean next to nothing compared to that reality...

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'W')e'll wait until Queen Nancy Pelosi says its ok....or until she is deposed and a more rational person becomes speaker of the House.

[Peleg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', 'I')t should be painful to take a jet plane to mexico for a weekend of bing drinking.

[f2tornado]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', 'I') have a question for those who favor offshore and ANWR drilling as a way to decrease our "dependence on foreign oil."

once the oil is extracted, doesn't it belong to the same companies that extract it from anywhere in the world, to be sold on an open, international market? do you think the shareholders of those companies would allow preferential sales terms to US consumers at below market rates? What difference does it make whether the oil is from US or foreign sources once it gets to market?

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', ' ')What difference does it make whether the oil is from US or foreign sources once it gets to market?

[thuja]

Four main reasons why increased domestic drilling in currently off-limits areas is dumb:

1) Strategically it is a waste of our last major untapped deposits of oil. Save it for a decade or two when things get really really dire and we need something to keep the lights on...

2) Why let oil companies exploit it and sell it at Global Spot market prices just to quench the thirst of millions of new Chindian econocar drivers?

3) Why use up our last oil resources when it will make nary a difference in the price of the pump? It is likely to only marginally reduce the rate of inflation in oil prices.

4) Why focus on drilling when it is unlikely to even reduce the global rate of depletion. Any new oil will simply be swallowed up by new consumers in the unlikely scenario that the price goes down.


The only sane reason I have heard is to go ahead and drill so that we get that red herring out of the way and concentrate on true ways of adapting to a Post Peak world...


But I'm happy to hear silly partisan hacking about Nancy Pelosi ...both the parties are out to lunch and anyone here should know that...

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'F')our main reasons why increased domestic drilling in currently off-limits areas is dumb:

1) Strategically it is a waste of our last major untapped deposits of oil. Save it for a decade or two when things get really really dire and we need something to keep the lights on...

2) Why let oil companies exploit it and sell it at Global Spot market prices just to quench the thirst of millions of new Chindian econocar drivers?

3) Why use up our last oil resources when it will make nary a difference in the price of the pump? It is likely to only marginally reduce the rate of inflation in oil prices.

4) Why focus on drilling when it is unlikely to even reduce the global rate of depletion. Any new oil will simply be swallowed up by new consumers in the unlikely scenario that the price goes down.

[thuja]

So you didn't want to address my points then?