[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hironegro', ' ')what is the issue with OCS drilling?

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'W')e could nationalize the IOCs and mandate that American Oil Stays Here, ala the Dem plan to do same with refineries. Which would be based on the assumption bought and paid for politicians have our best interests in mind har har har.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')
You wish to sell off the last remaining oil we have left just for the spectacular hope that speculators will ramp down their enthusiasm for a few years (days?) and prices will diminish 20-30$/barrel. Bah!

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hironegro', ' ')what is the issue with OCS drilling?

[Peleg]

'Bah humbug, politics has no bearing on the future.' said Scrooge

'Excuse me Mr. Scrooge but has'nt politics shaped the future of every nation since even before Caesar.' Tiny Tim retorts.

'Bah....I'm of the mind to remove all politicians and replace them with myself,...me,...then maybe I can get some rest.' said Scrooge.

Extreme politics are the same as isolationism. Being in the world and being human means there is a need to compromise and to accept that life is sometimes smoke and mirrors and that is not always bad. The quest for absolute submission to absolute truth is God's business.

I notice you hinted that ANWR was on the menu, clearly it is not and never will be. Some parts of OCS have to be on the menu because we have to start somewhere. Green Cornucopia does not exist, it is not an island just north of Greenland. humans like all other animals deeply affect their environment, the best we can hope is to guide that impact into sustainable envelopes.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'G')eorge Bush, our beloved leader, wants to whore our last resources to be sold on a global market to prop up the illusion that he can do something about Peak Oil. Nancy may be completely clueless when it comes to what we are facing, but the ... who think drilling ANWR and the OCS are the answer should be taken out back...

[Peleg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'W')e could nationalize the IOCs and mandate that American Oil Stays Here, ala the Dem plan to do same with refineries. Which would be based on the assumption bought and paid for politicians have our best interests in mind har har har.$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bill Hicks', '�')��I’ll show you politics in America,” he added. “Here it is, right here. ‘I think the puppet on the right shares my beliefs.’ ‘I think the puppet on the left is more to my liking.’ ‘Hey, wait a minute, there’s one guy holding out both puppets!’ ”

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'N')ationalization of oil is about the craziest plan imaginable. We have a 13 million barrel/day shortfall of oil that we make up through importing. If nations saw that we were keeping our oil for ourselves they might just say- "well I think we'll keep ours too." Guess who would be hurting more?

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'Y')ou are arguing with your own fantasies. No one, not even your beloved George Bush, has ever said ANWR and the OCS are the answer to peak oil.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Peleg', 'R')ealism is a stiff drink but one this forum desparately needs a case or two off.

[Peleg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'R')ealism is the fact that we are short 13 million barrels/day of oil. Realism is the fact that we are about to experience a global shortfall of oil that no amount of domestic drilling can overcome. Realism is that the price of oil will not be reduced by dometsic drilling. We may only be able to marginally reduce the level of global oil price inflation, for a few years.
Realism is not...staring at an incoming tsunami wave and say things like. Maybe if we stood up here on this little 10 foot hill, things will be okay. Go study the math and come back when you really truly "get it."

[thuja]

You;ve posted here- what? Less than two months. Spend some time reading. You call me extreme- spend some time reading roccman or Jack's posts.

I am simply astonished that anyone would post here and say they agree that domestic drilling is part of the solution- as if there were a "solution".

The reality is that we are soon going to be experiencing 1-4% annual drops in global production that will not be remotely slowed by domestic drilling. Take the time to read the lengthy threads that describe what that means and why a paltry 1 or 2 extra million barrels that might or might not be produced will mean next to nothing compared to that reality...

[coyote]

Peleg, I'm afraid thuja is right. Oil prices are determined in international markets. And the amount of oil added by ANWR to the world market would be pretty minimal.

If we're going to drill there - and I'm pretty sure it's ultimately inevitable - then we'd best sit on it as long as we can. Drill for it now, when we've barely begun to feel the pain? We blink far too easily. Later, when we're struggling to pay for enough insanely expensive oil to build a new infrastructure, we'll wish we hadn't been so hasty.

Wait for it... Waaaaaiitt.....

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', ' ')a paltry 1 or 2 extra million barrels that might or might not be produced will mean next to nothing compared to that reality...

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'P')eleg, I'm afraid thuja is right. Oil prices are determined in international markets. And the amount of oil added by ANWR to the world market would be pretty minimal.
If we're going to drill there - and I'm pretty sure it's ultimately inevitable - then we'd best sit on it as long as we can. Drill for it now, when we've barely begun to feel the pain? We blink far too easily. Later, when we're struggling to pay for enough insanely expensive oil to build a new infrastructure, we'll wish we hadn't been so hasty.

[hironegro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Peleg', 'W')ould you be surprised someday to see a nation called Colorado living comfortably off of it's oil shale reserves?

[skeptik]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hironegro', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Peleg', 'W')ould you be surprised someday to see a nation called Colorado living comfortably off of it's oil shale reserves?

[hironegro]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('skeptik', 'M')ajor issues is a major understatement. Back in the Carter era the oil co's blew about a billion dollars trying to produce oil from kerogen shale (oil shale is a misnomer. there isnt actually any oil in it, just an organic oil pre-cursor which has to be cooked to produce oil) and then gave up. Whether it can ever be an EROEI positive energy source is moot. --snip--
North Sea does have one major advantage, though. Unlike the East coast of America, it doesn't regularly get whacked by hurricanes.

[Peleg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'Y')ou;ve posted here- what? Less than two months. Spend some time reading. You call me extreme- spend some time reading roccman or Jack's posts. I am simply astonished that anyone would post here and say they agree that domestic drilling is part of the solution- as if there were a "solution".
The reality is that we are soon going to be experiencing 1-4% annual drops in global production that will not be remotely slowed by domestic drilling. Take the time to read the lengthy threads that describe what that means and why a paltry 1 or 2 extra million barrels that might or might not be produced will mean next to nothing compared to that reality...

[Peleg]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'P')eleg, I'm afraid thuja is right. Oil prices are determined in international markets. And the amount of oil added by ANWR to the world market would be pretty minimal.
If we're going to drill there - and I'm pretty sure it's ultimately inevitable - then we'd best sit on it as long as we can. Drill for it now, when we've barely begun to feel the pain? We blink far too easily. Later, when we're struggling to pay for enough insanely expensive oil to build a new infrastructure, we'll wish we hadn't been so hasty.