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THE Mexico Thread Pt. 2 (merged)

A forum for discussion of regional topics including oil depletion but also government, society, and the future.

Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 09:11:52

Direct link to same story: International Political Economy Zone: Supply Killer: Oil Exporters ...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')ndonesia flipped from exporting oil to importing it three years ago because of sagging production in depleted fields and rising demand. Iran, Algeria and Malaysia are vulnerable in the next decade. Most oil experts view Mexico as the next country likely to flip, in as little as five years. Rapidly falling production in Mexico's aging Cantarell oil field is part of the problem. Also significant, though, is the rising number of cars on Mexican roads. They have nearly doubled, to almost 16 million, in the last decade, and gasoline consumption is growing 5 percent a year. In Mexico City the other day, a bricklayer named Jaime Guerrero arrived at a local Chevrolet dealership. His extended family cried "bravo!" as he signed the papers for his first car.

"To have a new car in my name is a dream transformed into reality," said Guerrero, 26. He and his family piled in and weaved through the chaotic traffic of the capital, hunting for a priest to douse the car with holy water. "I don't worry about the climate or shortages of oil in the world," Guerrero said. "I just worry if gasoline prices go up."


Try again, OF2.
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby SoylentGreen » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 10:06:18

the reason is simple. The actual Oil used per Mexican is Up dramatically. There isnt very many Mexicans left that are'nt in the US illegally.If it wasnt for San Diego residents driving accross the border to fil up, the TOTAL Mexican consumption would be down year after year.
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Mexico trims exports to US

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 10:20:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')emex, Mexico's state-owned oil company, has reduced the amount of crude oil it supplies to Texas refineries operated by Royal Dutch Shell and Valero Energy Corp. as falling production curbs exports.

The guaranteed amount of Maya oil for a Deer Park refinery, jointly operated with Shell, was cut by 15 percent, the Mexico City-based company said in a regulatory filing. Pemex also lowered oil supplies by 5.8 percent to the Port Arthur refinery of Valero, the largest U.S. refiner.

Separately, Pemex said output at Cantarell, the world's third-largest oil field, fell to an almost 12-year low in May.


Pemex curtails oil exports to Texas
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby allenwrench » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 10:22:05

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Nicholai', 'O')F2, how can you base your idea on one example?

You're correct, one example does not make a trend - but then, I didn't say it was a trend, I merely showed it was possible. The reasons for this particular example, however, could be interesting, and I believe eastbay touched on many of them above.

I saw the chart and it reminded me of South Korea and Turkey, both of which, like Mexico, are middle-income nations whose oil demand has been flat over approximately the same time. Not all developing nations have increasing oil consumption.


I already explained in the SK thread that SK had been exporting a lot of gasoline, and as internal consumption rises, exports to the US and other places were recently back or cut off (to the US). I guess you didn't even bother to read the responses to your own posts or other posts in the thread.

Looking at oil consumption without considering net product imports/exports is useless.



We should remember that even flat crude consumption will be viewed as an 'increase' in usage once oil production starts to decline.

On the news they highlight new oil discoveries as well as tar sands and the like, putting much hope in these areas. But we will need new oil finds just to 'stand still' and replace the depletion of our old wells.
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Re: Mexico trims exports to US

Unread postby benzoil » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 10:30:47

So that's it then. If the first leg down started in 2005/6, then July 8, 2008 is the start of the second leg down.
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Re: Mexico trims exports to US

Unread postby burtonridr » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 14:01:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'S')o that's it then. If the first leg down started in 2005/6, then July 8, 2008 is the start of the second leg down.


So from this we can conclude that the third leg will be in 2010 :-D
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Re: Mexico trims exports to US

Unread postby benzoil » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 15:34:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('burtonridr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'S')o that's it then. If the first leg down started in 2005/6, then July 8, 2008 is the start of the second leg down.


So from this we can conclude that the third leg will be in 2010 :-D


Actually, I'd say you're right. I wouldn't be surprised if that's when we first see actual shortages.
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Re: Mexico trims exports to US

Unread postby burtonridr » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 17:19:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'A')ctually, I'd say you're right. I wouldn't be surprised if that's when we first see actual shortages.

Yea its kinda the year I figure most crap will REALLY start to fall apart....

2010 We will experience:
- Extreme shortages of oil
- Baby boomers retiring all at once, its not a good thing for the economy to have that many people stop working all at once.

For the life of me I cant remember what else is going to happen in 2010..... I know there were atleast two more HUGE economical problems that are going to surface by 2010..... Arrgghh
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Re: Mexico trims exports to US

Unread postby Novus » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 18:06:50

For a long time we talked about the apocalypse coming in 2012 but things are speeding up rapidly. If the US hadn't seen 800k worth of demand destruction in the last year we would already have shortages. The thing is we need more demand destruction to keep up with these decline curves. There can only be so demand destruction before the whole thing breaks. The breaking point where society goes Hobbsian may be setting up for the 2010 time frame if not sooner.
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby DantesPeak » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 20:34:53

Can someone explain to the 'kids' here that Mexico may have a fuel consumption problem?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'M')exican gasoline supplies being limited; diesel crisis ongoing

By Omar Millan Gonzalez
July 7, 2008

TIJUANA – In the midst of a diesel shortage that has left truck and bus drivers chasing meager supplies, Mexico's national oil monopoly has discreetly informed gas station owners that their gasoline sales will also be limited.

Meanwhile, the diesel crisis showed no signs of easing. It started a week ago and led to truck and bus drivers waiting hours in line at gas stations for a chance to buy diesel, when they could find it at all.



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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 21:16:32

People here have given 1 link to a peakoil.com story about a 1-year, 5+% rise in Mexican oil consumption, and 1 link to someone's blog. I'd be more than happy to be shown that Mexican gasoline consumption is going through the roof, but not even the BP annual statistical review carries such figures, and a search everywhere else has come up dry.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby TheDude » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 21:43:33

Check the EIA data on exports to Mexico, then. Exports from the US took off in '97 while imports from Mexico reached a level they maintained until recently. There's no explanation for that except a boost in consumption of finished products. EIA says gasoline is over 60 percent of Mexican imports, too.
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 21:56:10

^
I have no doubt Mexico is importing more gasoline. But as everyone knows, their domestic production is declining, so even if their consumption was flat, they would still be importing more oil or at least gasoline.

So I'm not sure that really answers the question.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 21:59:10

Also, Mexican oil exports to the US have been rising - at least until last year.

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Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 22:09:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', 'C')heck the EIA data on exports to Mexico, then. Exports from the US took off in '97 while imports from Mexico reached a level they maintained until recently. There's no explanation for that except a boost in consumption of finished products. EIA says gasoline is over 60 percent of Mexican imports, too.

Actually, a review of the yearly stats from the EIA shows very little pattern since 2000. US oil and petroleum products exports to Mexico last peaked in 2000 and has kinda bounced up and down since then.

--> LINK <--

The rapid rise starting around 1997 can probably be at least partly attributed to NAFTA (which went into effect in '94 I think), but then it peaked in 2000, went down for few years, and started rising again.

So, over the past 10 years, Mexican exports to the US have risen considerably faster than US exports to Mexico.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby DantesPeak » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 22:34:56

I guess some still haven't heard that Cantarell is crashing.

Mexican exports to the US have dropped 25% since October 2006. They may be down 80% by 2010.

What happened before PO really doesn't matter anymore.
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Re: Mexican oil consumption: Going almost nowhere for 7 year

Unread postby copious.abundance » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 22:49:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', 'I') guess some still haven't heard that Cantarell is crashing.

Didn't I just say?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', 'I') have no doubt Mexico is importing more gasoline. But as everyone knows, their domestic production is declining

Yes, I believe I did say that.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', 'M')exican exports to the US have dropped 25% since October 2006.

Actually, as of April it's closer to 20%. But I digress.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', 'T')hey may be down 80% by 2010.

Could be.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', 'W')hat happened before PO really doesn't matter anymore.
And none of this has still answered the question as to whether Mexican gasoline consumption has been rising at an annual rate of 5% over a long period of time, or not.
Stuff for doomers to contemplate:
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1190117.html#p1190117
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1193930.html#p1193930
http://peakoil.com/forums/post1206767.html#p1206767
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Mexico locking in Future Contracts

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 15:28:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')EW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- In the last three days oil prices have fallen by roughly $10 a barrel. Many analysts say slackening demand, or the threat of it, is the main culprit.

But another force could be at work in the background. Last week various analysts said there was talk that Mexico, the world's fifth largest oil producer, was hedging its bets - the country was said to be signing contracts to deliver oil several years into the future at today's prices. Essentially, it was betting oil prices have peaked.


Rumors that Mexico is locking in oil contracts for future delivery at today's prices prompt questions of whether oil's record run has come to a halt.
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Re: Mexico locking in Future Contracts

Unread postby Cashmere » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 16:06:34

Mexico?

Wow.

If they end up becoming a net importer in the next 2 years, long term contracts to <i>deliver</i> oil at today's prices could end up being a slaughter.
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Re: Mexico locking in Future Contracts

Unread postby UncoveringTruths » Thu 17 Jul 2008, 16:09:03

I see Force Majeure in Mexico's future. Who would be dumb enough to lock in future contracts with them?
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