by joe1347 » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 18:02:16
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '[')b]The law requiring EIS statements to be done is 38 years old. Can we please stop the idiotic claims that requirement for EIS statements for solar power plants being planned for sites on federal land are somehow George Bush's fault?
Thank you.
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The National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) is a United States environmental law that was signed into law on January 1, 1970 by U.S. President Richard Nixon. The focus of the law was the establishment of a U.S. national policy promoting the enhancement of the environment, but its most significant effect was to establish
the requirement for environmental impact statements (EISs) for major U.S. federal government actions.NEPA came into existence following widespread protests against the federal government's destruction of neighborhoods and the natural environment while building Interstate highways during the 1950s and 1960s.
The law has since been applied to any project, federal, state or local, that involves federal funding or work performed by the federal government. Although enacted on January 1, 1970, its "short title" is "National Environmental Policy Act of 1969." It was passed as P.L. 91-190 and is codified at 42 U.S.C. § 4321 through 42 U.S.C. § 4347.cheers!
We're not arguing that the law exists. The argument is that the Bush Administration has shown little regard for laws when it suits them. As for the the applications piling up, again the argument is that instead of throwing up their hands and saying - sorry no solar energy for two years - the Bush Admin could show some leadership or managment to fast track approvals. Unless there are scorpion huggers, it's idiotic to think that there is a significant environmental impact associated with solar power plants in the middle of the desert - especially when the alternative is either brown outs (no electricity) or to burn yet more coal which has a multitude of known environmental impacts associated with both it's mining and burning.
Last edited by
joe1347 on Sun 29 Jun 2008, 18:20:50, edited 1 time in total.
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." Homer Simpson
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by ProudFossil » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 18:05:11
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cephalotus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '
')I gave the links to the raw data in my original post. I don't think PO Forum wants me to post the 27 x 254 matrix of usages.
I culdn't find the fdate for the US there, otherwise I wouldn't have asked...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', 'But as an example
Raw usage for Antarctica, 1980-2006')
RAW data for the US would have been more helpful.
I do not understand what you mean with fdate.
I posted the Antarctica stuff for two reasons, one it demonstrates that even in the most barren, God-forsaken part of the world, usage is increasing at a rapid rate. And I thought it might add a bit of humor to the thread.
Incidentally the data for the US is:
17056 16058 15296 15231 15725.61 15726.42 16280.63 16665.05 17283.31 17325.15 16988.5 16713.84 17032.86 17236.73 17718.16 17724.59 18308.9 18620.3 18917.15 19519.34 19701.08 19648.71 19761.3 20033.5 20731.15 20802.16 20687.42
And I will anticipate those of you who will say, See we told you so. Usage has increased during Bush. But suprisingly it has throughout the whole 25 years. And remember we now have 30,000,000 illegal aliens more now than 25 years ago.
I don't think anyone of the presidents made the people use the gasoline/oil. It was in the cards for the boomers, the Xers, and all the other generational groups since 1980 to demand more.
by TWilliam » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 18:05:45
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MyOldTDiIsStillGoing', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'W')atch this little public prank and pay close attention to how the 'victims' respond, and you might begin to get an idea...
Scary. And the people who are moving around will be the ones, if they have the capability, to select the next president and leaders of the United States. Even scarier: who are the actual, real zombies in this video?
Yep. And did you catch the comment from the guy standing behind the one in line about 'I think we should cut this guy' (meaning cut in front of him in line, not cut him with a knife)? Did you also notice how no one even so much as
touched any of the pranksters to see if they'd get a response?
We've really become a nation of mindless voyeurs. As long as it doesn't
directly impact us (as in 'ball-bat-upside-the-head' impact), we just watch with mouths agape while making little if any effort to intervene.
I remember a similar experience I had several years back. Myself and a group of friends were in a Kmart, and just for giggles we grabbed a ball from the toy section and started playing 'soccer' throughout the store. We went on for I'd say a good half hour or so,
and not one person even acknowledged what we were doing. Not customers, not staff. It was almost as if we were invisible. Very bizarre...
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
by MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 18:34:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joe1347', 't')here likely is no backlog and it's just a smokescreen and a final favor to big coal before Bush's term ends.
Why don't you read the article?
The article discusses the fact that there is a backlog of applications for use of federal land for new solar plants. Because of the high oil prices, there are many many new applications to develop wind and solar power.
By federal law, ANY leasing, sale, or development of federal lands requires an EIS to be done.
If you don't think EIS statements need to be done on solar energy sites, then you are wrong. If a solar energy company tries to sneak out and night and start work build a solar power plant on federal land without the EIS being completed and without the approval of federal agencies, they will be stopped, and taken to court and fined and the work will be stopped.
If you don't like EIS laws, then lobby your congressman to change the laws.
Its illogical to blame George Bush for the laws requiring EIS statements to be done. Congress enacted these laws DECADES AGO at the behest of environmentalists who were concerned that valuable natural sites could be damaged and that endangered species could be affected by development of federal lands. It would be nice if US companies could just start building powerplants they way they can in some foreign countries, but the US has much more strict environmental laws...you can't build groovy solar power plants or windfarms or powerlines in the US without an EIS any more then you can drill an evil oil well or build pipelines or mine for coal without an EIS
Cheers!
BINGO. Read the article joe. The DEPT OF INTERIORS (WHICH IS THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION) all the permits done, no backlog. They have to have the EIS to give the 100% go forward permit. IF THIS IS TO BE OVER RULED, congress must create a bill to do it. Get with your congress representative to push it. You obviously have not worked in the corporate world or dealt with the government much. A visit to the DMV would be enough to educate anyone on how they work.
It is obvious that you want to say and do everything 'Hate Bush'...and don't understand the government system our country has.
Plantagenet said it all. The land is federal land, therefore yours and mine. The government can't just bulldoze it down for everything. The solar installation will happen. It will happen at the speed of our government. The article gave the typical sappy NYT twist of these small companies and their dealing with the government isn't happening fast enough. Well, before they signed on with the government, they should of known how the government works. Many business through experience learned the frustration of dealing with them. Some businesses won't even touch a government contract, it just isn't worth it. Sad, but that is the way it is.
FYI: Bush's ranch is almost all solar powered and he had the White House converted to solar power as a primary source when he came. The previous administration didn't. Al Gore's mansion isn't.
Enough said, time to move on.
THE SIMPLE LIFE: One frozen pond, a few sticks, a little round puck, and a bunch of rowdy kids.
by Plantagenet » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 18:44:16
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joe1347', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '[')b]The law requiring EIS statements to be done is 38 years old. Can we please stop the idiotic claims that requirement for EIS statements for solar power plants being planned for sites on federal land are somehow George Bush's fault?
Thank you.
We're not arguing that the law exists..... As for the the applications piling up, again the argument is that instead of throwing up their hands and saying - sorry no solar energy for two years - the Bush Admin could show some leadership or managment to fast track approvals. Unless there are scorpion huggers, it's idiotic to think that there is a significant environmental impact associated with solar power plants in the middle of the desert
You can't "fast-track" the EIS process. The law is written to require specific investigations of water, land, threatened animals, etc. Its a law environmentalists got passed to SLOW DOWN development. Some EIS processes can take decades, especially if they go to court. Typically the field investigations and the writing of the EIS can be contracted out to private companies.
But the BLM, by law, can't contract out the oversight and the review of the EIS statements----its the BLM's job to manage federal lands and to review EIS statements and construction proposals. Thats what they do.
If any of the EIS investigations or the EIS written report doesn't adequately address the environmental issues, then environmental groups can appeal and have it all done over. Even then, the BLM and the power companies and the constructions can all be sued by environmental groups if they dispute any part of the EIS.
Environmentalists have gotten to be very good at delaying and shutting down construction projects. Building just about anything in the US takes a long time, or may never happen, when environmental groups object.
Its idiotic to imagine that there are no environmental issues or endangered species in the desert. There are plenty of endangered species in the desert, starting with turtles. Then you've got your frogs and salamanders.....virtually all amphibians are endangered these days....any muddy ponds with frogs within a couple of miles of the construction sites? Any bats? Coyotes? Squirrels? Hawks? Eagles? Ground water? Contamination during construction? Road buidling? That generates sediment that hurts fish and frogs.
The environmental groups have spent 38 years using the EIS process to force the BLM to do a full survey before any permits or any kind of serious work can begin on anything. They're not about to change now.
Its illogical to blame Bush for an environmental law that is 38 years old. If you object to the EIS process, then IMHO you'd be smarter to work to change the EIS process itself rather then blaming Bush for something he has no control over.
by MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:08:44
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MyOldTDiIsStillGoing', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'W')atch this little public prank and pay close attention to how the 'victims' respond, and you might begin to get an idea...
Scary. And the people who are moving around will be the ones, if they have the capability, to select the next president and leaders of the United States. Even scarier: who are the actual, real zombies in this video?
Yep. And did you catch the comment from the guy standing behind the one in line about 'I think we should cut this guy' (meaning cut in front of him in line, not cut him with a knife)? Did you also notice how no one even so much as
touched any of the pranksters to see if they'd get a response?
We've really become a nation of mindless voyeurs. As long as it doesn't
directly impact us (as in 'ball-bat-upside-the-head' impact), we just watch with mouths agape while making little if any effort to intervene.
I remember a similar experience I had several years back. Myself and a group of friends were in a Kmart, and just for giggles we grabbed a ball from the toy section and started playing 'soccer' throughout the store. We went on for I'd say a good half hour or so,
and not one person even acknowledged what we were doing. Not customers, not staff. It was almost as if we were invisible. Very bizarre...
Yep, if the person said "should we cut" and this was down in Brooklyn, well the knife might happen. However, since Flushing is up in Queens, probably safe to say they were just cutting in front. But the conversations, unbelievable. Again, who are the real zombies in this video?
The ones who as you state: "We've really become a nation of mindless voyeurs." These are the ones who will vote for someone because "there is hope" or "time for a change" but no one ask: what are you offering that gives hope of substance or what is it that will change? And then, years down the road, these zombies wake up and realize they are under a totalitarian rule and realize, oh, that was the change. However, keep the people drugged, and they won't ask. I got to re-read
1984 to refresh my memory of this state of mind that society is sleep walking to.
As for the K-Mart thing, my buddies did the same thing hear a few years ago. Same results. However, I remember when I was a kid in the late '60's. If we did something majorly wrong at a neighbors house, I would get walloped up by my friend's dad, and then he would drag my ass home, and get another walloping by my mom. It was the double smack down that happened back then. People got involved dealing with others when it was needed.
THE SIMPLE LIFE: One frozen pond, a few sticks, a little round puck, and a bunch of rowdy kids.
by dinopello » Mon 14 Jul 2008, 13:54:33
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MonteQuest', 'J')ust now. CNBC, Bush says the OCS has 10 years of oil supply for
America.
21mbpd X 365= 7.7 billion/yr x 10 =77 billion
Where do they get such numbers?
Known recoverable reserves in the US is only 21 billion barrels, right?
The Dept of Interior.
OCS Oil and gas Assessment (2006)$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he MMS has completed an assessment of the undiscovered technically recoverable resources (UTRR) underlying offshore waters on the Outer Continental Shelf (OCS). This assessment was based on information available as of January 1, 2003, including information obtained from new exploration activities.
The MMS estimates that the quantity of undiscovered technically recoverable resources ranges from 66.6 to 115.3 billion barrels of oil and 326.4 to 565.9 trillion cubic feet of natural gas.
Of course that is an estimate of the
undiscovered technically recoverable reserves.
by MonteQuest » Mon 14 Jul 2008, 14:29:43
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Specop_007', 'I')'m sorry.....OCS?
Outer Continental Shelf
A Saudi saying, "My father rode a camel. I drive a car. My son flies a jet-plane. His son will ride a camel."
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