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THE G. W. Bush and Energy Thread pt 2 (merged)

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 07:37:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MyOldTDiIsStillGoing', 'h')ow are the caribou enjoying the pipeline up there? Yes, the pipeline destroyed their population.


Are you ill-informed or just lying?

Back here in the real world the caribou herd at Prudhoe Bay has tripled in size since the pipeline was constructed.

Cheers! :)

PS: Your address says you live at exit 112 on I-17 in Cincinnati. How are the buffalo enjoying the freeway there?


Hey, you didn't catch my joke. I am well aware of the caribou and their orgy party they are having up in their heated pipeline party house we built for them. It is strange how nature adapters to us humans.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MyOldTDiIsStillGoing', 'A')s for the Mojave ground squirrel that our fed government needs to protect, we look north to Alaska as our example of the environmental impact on those little critters. The solar panels will serve as sun shields so they can now be cooler in the desert heat. Thus, they can be "fruitful and multiply" since they aren't dying off in the heat. Just as the Alaskan Pipeline did with our bigger critters, the caribou, just the temperature issue is reversed. Man helping nature, oh so PC.



If we build it, they will come. Then we will have numerous squirrels roaming around as we have here in Ohio with the buffalo. Yep, another one just got smacked last night on I-71 (oh, exit 112 is up the road another 100 miles from CINCY in the next big town). Those buffaloes are roaming our streets, our back yards, they are everywhere. Let see, buffaloes in Ohio, yes us "lower 48", we all looks the same don't we. Ohio, Rhode Island, Nebraska, Montana, all the same. Buffaloes everywhere. :shock:

Back to meat of the issue. This post started with with the claim that "Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental &..." and uses NYT to claim it. The editor claims Bush did it but then he contradicts himself since the Dept of Int is moving forward on the solar land development. Oh, the DOI is the Bush Admin, wow, sounds like some discrepancy here. Typical NTY, doublespeak again. Please, I am not a Bush fan on many things, but let us focus on the real roadblocks and get those repaired so we can move forward.

AS for:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', 'Y')ou know, I'm not especially fond of the enviro-nazis myself, but at least they have the sense to know that it's NOT ok to pave and panel and drill and 'develop' the whole goddamned planet just because selfish @ssholes want the 'convenience' of their wireless, push-button, remote-controlled drive-in 'utopia' :x


Totally agree, we shouldn't bulldozer down the world to find oil and kill off all the buffaloes as a result. I just wish there was a more professional way to do the EIS than the way it is done today. It seams like it is just a bunch of lawyers fighting for years while us outside the Beltway can't get petro at the local go-go stop because they are out of petro and we have rolling blackouts because we can't build more power facilities (in this case, solar farms).

Again, back to the meat of the issue, the buffalo out on I-71 that got smacked by the big rig , it happened :-D just an hour ago so it is still fresh. Now I can stock up for the winter season.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby pedalling_faster » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 07:38:56

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'B')ush didn't kill this project, you tree huggers did:


this tree-hugging, where does it come from ?

in Russia, people do not hug trees unless they are trying to climb a tree that has no low branches.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&q

Postby Cabrone » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 07:51:45

Funny how when Bush and co want to illegally invade another country, spend trillions of dollars, kill hundreds of thousands of people and run an energy policy that sees oil prices rise to $140 p.bbl it all happens without too much resistance. However when clean, efficient solar power is desperately needed the same regime is stopped in its tracks by a handful of environmentalists and a squirrel.

I'm afraid it all seems rather too convenient to me. If the bonehead in charge had started getting serious about solar in 2000 that report would have been written years ago and the industry would be (excuse the pun) powering ahead.

The reality for US conservatives (when they have wiped the bias out of their eyes) is that in 2002 Bush and co had a fundamental decision to make on what energy strategy the country was going to go down and he got it catastrophically wrong.

The options on the table back in 02' were:

(a) Maintain current oil consumption by invading Iraq and placing more oil on the open market.

or

(b) Get serious about the future by going down an energy conservation\renewable\nuclear route, reducing our carbon emissions to boot.

Tragically for the entire world President numb nuts went for (a) (shamefully backed by the loathsome Blair) and in 2008 we are where we are, up the sh*t creek without a paddle.

So why do I, a citizen of the UK, give a damn what the US does? After all it's the US public that is going to get roasted for this mans incompetency, right?

Well it's because the US addiction to oil is sucking up around 25% of global oil, a resource that should be for all of us, not just the US.

Bush has done more than anyone to push all of us to a PO state ASAP and that affects me. That's why I give a damn.

It's a shame that the rest of the world doesn't get a vote on who should run the US - the current clown would not have got within a thousand miles of the white house.

People of the US and the world, the reality is that this administration has done more harm to global climate\energy\economic and political stability than any other regime in history (not even the grotesque Nazis managed this amount of damage). I look forward to the day that the US public wakes up, grows a pair of cojones and puts the whole damn weasel bunch of them on trial.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby joe1347 » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 08:05:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cabrone', 'F')unny how when Bush and co want to illegally invade another country, spend trillions of dollars, kill hundreds of thousands of people and run an energy policy that sees oil prices rise to $140 p.bbl it all happens without too much resistance. However when clean, efficient solar power is desperately needed the same regime is stopped in its tracks by a handful of environmentalists and a squirrel.

I'm afraid it all seems rather too convenient to me. If the bonehead in charge had started getting serious about solar in 2000 that report would have been written years ago and the industry would be (excuse the pun) powering ahead.

The reality for US conservatives (when they have wiped the bias out of their eyes) is that in 2002 Bush and co had a fundamental decision to make on what energy strategy the country was going to go down and he got it catastrophically wrong.

The options on the table back in 02' were:

(a) Maintain current oil consumption by invading Iraq and placing more oil on the open market.

or

(b) Get serious about the future by going down an energy conservation\renewable\nuclear route, reducing our carbon emissions to boot.

Tragically for the entire world President numb nuts went for (a) (shamefully backed by the loathsome Blair) and in 2008 we are where we are, up the sh*t creek without a paddle.

So why do I, a citizen of the UK, give a damn what the US does? After all it's the US public that is going to get roasted for this mans incompetency, right?

Well it's because the US addiction to oil is sucking up around 25% of global oil, a resource that should be for all of us, not just the US.

Bush has done more than anyone to push all of us to a PO state ASAP and that affects me. That's why I give a damn.

It's a shame that the rest of the world doesn't get a vote on who should run the US - the current clown would not have got within a thousand miles of the white house.

People of the US and the world, the reality is that this administration has done more harm to global climate\energy\economic and political stability than any other regime in history (not even the grotesque Nazis managed this amount of damage). I look forward to the day that the US public wakes up, grows a pair of cojones and puts the whole damn weasel bunch of them on trial.


Thanks. It's naive to think that the Bush Administration couldn't fast track approval to pave over a few square miles of barren desert. Yes, that's all we're talking about - a few square miles out of millions - to get solar energy moving in the USA. Besides the fact that the Bush Admin has little regard for regulatory law - witness the thousands of signing statements - some Presidential leadership could also be applied. Such as hiring or reassigning more regulatory staff. It isn't like no one saw this coming.

As for the cost, do some searching and you'll see that concentrated solar power is quickly becoming price competitive in certain regions of the country - namely California - where electricity is running close to 20 cents/Kw-hr during peak demand (i.e, when the sun is shining). This is even without imposing carbon sequestration mandates on new coal fired power plants (not that carbon sequestration is even proven to work or even proven to be technically viable).
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&q

Postby ProudFossil » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 08:53:16

To Cabrone:

Before you start your liberal rantings about oil get some facts:

US percentage of global oil consumption:

source
http://www.swivel.com/data_columns/show/8551369

except for 2007 which came from daily statistics given in
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_o ... onsumption

1980 27.0%
1981 26.3
1982 25.7
1983 26.0
1984 26.3
1985 26.2
1986 26.3
1987 26.4
1988 26.6
1989 26.2
1990 25.5
1991 24.8
1992 25.2
1993 25.5
1994 25.7
1995 25.3
1996 25.6
1997 25.4
1998 25.6
1999 25.8
2000 25.7
2001 25.4
2002 25.3
2003 25.2
2004 25.2
2005 24.9
2006 24.4
2007 25.2

Clinton average = 25.575
Bush average = 25.123 (whoops, less than Clinton)
Iraq war (2003 - 2007) average = 24.98 (double whoops, less even more)
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby Munqi » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 09:01:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '
')
Clinton average = 25.575
Bush average = 25.123 (whoops, less than Clinton)
Iraq war (2003 - 2007) average = 24.98 (double whoops, less even more)




Growth in the third world probably doesnt have anything to do with that? :roll:
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby cephalotus » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 09:07:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'T')o Cabrone:

Before you start your liberal rantings about oil get some facts:

US percentage of global oil consumption:...


could you also provide the absolute numbers , please?

(with the dramatic raise of the Chinese economy and thurst for oil it's quite logical that relativ numbers are sinking elsewhere)
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&q

Postby PeakOiler » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 09:09:00

The article relates a reason why I wouldn't hold my breath thinking that government is going to solve one's energy problems, but probably make them worse. It is also a good example of why I am a proponent of distributed power generation as opposed to centralized power sources.

No environmental study or permit was needed to install a solar water heater and some PV on my house.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 09:27:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cabrone', '
')People of the US and the world, the reality is that this administration has done more harm to global climate\energy\economic and political stability than any other regime in history (not even the grotesque Nazis managed this amount of damage). I look forward to the day that the US public wakes up, grows a pair of cojones and puts the whole damn weasel bunch of them on trial.


So, when Hitler tried to bombed your little island and your town of London to the ground, that was ok since his actions are better than our (us US citizens) current president? You may want to study up on history again before making that statement. Or talk to a retired WWII veteran neighbor of yours.

Remember, UK stands for United Kingdom, an empire that was spread around the world so it could pull resources from around the world to fuel the mother island. If I am not mistaken, the North Sea of yours is running out of oil as well. Maybe Tony Blair realized this as well and just like us, had to keep the pipeline going somewhere else. I have been to the UK numerous times, back and forth alot for business. Believe me, you folks are "addicted to oil" just like us, maybe a little less. Take a look at the M25 or M1 traffic, and there are hundreds of other examples. And if the traffic isn't stopped, then everyone zooming at 100mph hoping not to get a ticket from the cameras.

It is funny that when I get to Heathrow, I would take the Tube and rail up to Northampton. Everyone I work with there questioned why I would ride the "lousy" rail system. Hey, compared to Amtrak, you guys have a system. I scratch my head on those of your country who criticize your rail system.

Yes, Bush is no angel, but to compare him to Hitler and his action, you got to stop watch CNN and get to some facts.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 09:49:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakOiler', '
')No environmental study or permit was needed to install a solar water heater and some PV on my house.


OOOOOUUUUHHH-wey, I am goina tell mama on yall and she goina take you to there erh wood shed and whooooop you little assssss...yes ser reee. youz got to have ther permit from ther govnerment to do any thang...do yaw understand?!?!!!..my oh my
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby ProudFossil » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 10:03:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cephalotus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'T')o Cabrone:

Before you start your liberal rantings about oil get some facts:

US percentage of global oil consumption:...


could you also provide the absolute numbers , please?

(with the dramatic raise of the Chinese economy and thurst for oil it's quite logical that relativ numbers are sinking elsewhere)


I gave the links to the raw data in my original post. I don't think PO Forum wants me to post the 27 x 254 matrix of usages.

But as an example
Raw usage for Antarctica, 1980-2006

1 1 1 1 1.27 1.43 1.29 1.33 1.37 1.35 1.37 1.43 1.43 1.43 1.43 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.49 1.49 1.53 1.53 1.55 1.57

Gee, their usage has gone up by over 50% in the last 27 years.

Must be Bush's fault.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 10:38:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cephalotus', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'T')o Cabrone:

Before you start your liberal rantings about oil get some facts:

US percentage of global oil consumption:...


could you also provide the absolute numbers , please?

(with the dramatic raise of the Chinese economy and thurst for oil it's quite logical that relativ numbers are sinking elsewhere)


I gave the links to the raw data in my original post. I don't think PO Forum wants me to post the 27 x 254 matrix of usages.

But as an example
Raw usage for Antarctica, 1980-2006

1 1 1 1 1.27 1.43 1.29 1.33 1.37 1.35 1.37 1.43 1.43 1.43 1.43 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.47 1.49 1.49 1.53 1.53 1.55 1.57

Gee, their usage has gone up by over 50% in the last 27 years.

Must be Bush's fault.


I know the answer. Since the world is "Global Warming", to protect the sub-zero temperature of the Antarctica, air conditioning chillers have been install where that Ozone Hole is down there. The power consumption is outrageous. Not to worry, I will buy Carbon Credits to offset the power consumption and we will feel good all over.

Those penguins were ready to march off is we did not do anything, some already did. I think BBC did a documentary just a few months ago on the Arctic melt down and BBC in that documentary showed the penguins are up there. Boy, those penguins will be glad to come back down to the new, cooler Antarctica. The ice is almost gone up there and they can't swim forever. The polar bears up there are not your friendliest neighbors to have.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&q

Postby joe1347 » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 12:02:07

The discussion has seemed to get off-track. The question or assertion is that the Bush Admin has intentionally killed off solar energy development in the USA using environmental concerns as convienent political cover. Some are skeptical that the Bush Admin is putting the lives of a few dozen scorpions in some remote part of the desert southwest ahead of the need to develop clean carbon-free solar energy - especially given the fact that the Bush Admin is pushing for the immediate drilling (for oil) in known environmentally sensitive areas. Namely the nations coastlines.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 12:51:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joe1347', ' ')the Bush Admin has intentionally killed off solar energy development in the USA using environmental concerns as convienent political cover.


Do you really imagine the evil Bush administration travelled through time and tricked Congress decades ago into writing laws requiring EIS statements? Its silly to fantasize that solar is the victim of some evil conspiracy by the Bush administration.

The EIS laws predate Bush by decades.

The EIS process was designed by environmentalists and written into law by Congress decades ago to slow and stop development of federal lands. All federal land leases and sales, and all construction of roads etc. on federal lands require EIS statements, not just those involving solar energy.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby TWilliam » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 12:51:47

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('biofuel13', 'W')hat the hell is wrong with us? Why don't we ever reach a breaking point and do SOMETHING?


Watch this little public prank and pay close attention to how the 'victims' respond, and you might begin to get an idea...

[flash width=451 height=433]http://images.stupidvideos.com/images/player/player.swf?sa=1&sk=7&si=2&i=168607[/flash]
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&q

Postby Cabrone » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 13:40:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'T')o Cabrone:

Before you start your liberal rantings about oil get some facts:


:lol: :lol:

It's hilarious how some people want to stick up for this administation.

The 'facts' are that they have left you with:

1. A barrel of oil costing around $140 (probably significantly more before they have departed).
2. $2-3 trillion of war debt, thousands of dead US servicemen\women and an unwinnable war.
3. A complete dependence on mid east oil. Saudi Arabia says 'jump' and the US says 'how high'.
4. A rate of oil consumption that is crippling your country.

Put patriotism and democrat\republican tribalism to one side - can you honestly say you are happy with that legacy?

BTW my original post was not a pop at the American people. They are no different to the people in any other country.

I actually feel sorry for the majority of them, they have been conned all ends up by Bushco.

Best of luck, you are going to need it.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby Plantagenet » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 14:10:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cabrone', ' ')this administation..... have left you with:

1. A barrel of oil costing around $140 (probably significantly more before they have departed).


Bush has been a bad president, but he isn't the cause of everything wrong in the world.

This topic seems to be attracting those suffering from "Bush derangement syndome" or BDS. This mental condition manifests itself as an illogical tendency to blame everything on Bush.

Blaming EIS laws on Bush, even though the laws were passed by Congress at the behest of environmentalists decades before Bush took office is an example of BDS.

The rising price of oil is caused by rising demand in China and India and a global plateau in oil production (i.e. peak oil). Neither of those factors is caused by Bush. IMHO, blaming the rising price of oil on Bush is another example of BDS. :)
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 14:14:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('joe1347', 'T')he discussion has seemed to get off-track. The question or assertion is that the Bush Admin has intentionally killed off solar energy development in the USA using environmental concerns as convienent political cover. Some are skeptical that the Bush Admin is putting the lives of a few dozen scorpions in some remote part of the desert southwest ahead of the need to develop clean carbon-free solar energy - especially given the fact that the Bush Admin is pushing for the immediate drilling (for oil) in known environmentally sensitive areas. Namely the nations coastlines.


Yo, joe. you start a good post. Sorry we side tracked, but when someone from the EU equates our Prez to Hitler, well some correct is needed. GWB isn't the best Prez but he is our Prez. I remember being over there during the Clinton Admin, they trashed Billy as well. Again, I am not a fan for him, but at the time he was our Prez. They still haven't admitted it was millions of our JI's that went over there to die for them. And we still get trashed.

OK, a little government civics is in order. Congress at one end of Penn. Ave. is suppose to make bill which are laws. The President down at 1600 Penn. Ave administrates those bills or laws into action. In between these two places is this Supreme Court house, they check the bill (law) against the constitution to make sure it passes the legality test. There lies the problem, lots of bills don't past the test very well, but they get through. EIS could fall into this category if it was challenged. But it has been out there for 30+ years, hard to fix this one.

So sitting on the cabinet of the President are Department heads, as we so name Secretaries. Most know who the Sec of State is, she that Ms. Rice lady. Sitting on the same cabinet is the Sec of Energy and Sec of Interiors. Again, their job is to administrate what bills come down from the congress, and each bill is identified to which department handles the bill (law).

So the DOE has been working on alternative energies for years. Go to their website and you can see their activities. But they can only do what congress allows the to do through the bill/law command. And, the funding for this department is determined by the congress, the bill/law makers, they set the budget for tax and spending. The Prez can veto the request, but congress can over ride it with a certain majority percentage of representatives. SO if the federal govt wants to spend and push for solar energy, well it is the congress that has to do it.

As for the DOI, they have been told to take federal land, managed by the BLM, and convert some of it solar power station. Congress gave the green light on this, through a bill. However, BLM says, wait a minute, we got this EIS that has be done first since it is a law to do it. Don't go by the rules, bam, the environmental lawyers are marching the BLM/DOI to court. It sucks, but this is the way it is.

As you so posted the NYT article today, thank you for linking it, the DOI has done their part and is ready to issue permits (about 130 in all), they want to do it, but legally they can't until the paperwork is complete, remember the EIS is a law. So the DOI, which is the Bush Admin, is ready and wanting to do it.

As for offshore drilling, the Bush admin is requesting it be done. Again note the word, REQUESTING. The solar power on federal land is already being worked on. But the Prez cannot do anything about offshore drilling until congress, through the bill/law system, gives him the green light.

HERE IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF PROPOSALS: The Prez can propose that all American citizens are entitled to a free hot tub to relieve our stress. However, he can not go out and administrate the request (spend the money) since the congress must first create and ok a bill/law and appropriate the funding to spend. This proposes would fly through the Supreme Court with living colors under the "pursue of happiness" clause of our Declaration of Independence which is what our Constitution is derived from. This bill would probably make it through before the offshore drilling bill.

Hate to pound the point, by this dweeb from NYT needs to get the facts straight on who's doing what. It is funny that grandma Polosi said that when she takes over congress, gas prices will go down through her work with congress. OOPS, it went up. Remember, the congress makes the bills/laws. Did they do anything to stop the increase(s)? Did they push for the US to be less depended on foreign oil? The list can go on and on.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby MyOldTDiIsStillGoing » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 14:48:20

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cabrone', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ProudFossil', 'T')o Cabrone:

Before you start your liberal rantings about oil get some facts:


:lol: :lol:

It's hilarious how some people want to stick up for this administation.

The 'facts' are that they have left you with:

1. A barrel of oil costing around $140 (probably significantly more before they have departed).
2. $2-3 trillion of war debt, thousands of dead US servicemen\women and an unwinnable war.
3. A complete dependence on mid east oil. Saudi Arabia says 'jump' and the US says 'how high'.
4. A rate of oil consumption that is crippling your country.

Put patriotism and democrat\republican tribalism to one side - can you honestly say you are happy with that legacy?

BTW my original post was not a pop at the American people. They are no different to the people in any other country.

I actually feel sorry for the majority of them, they have been conned all ends up by Bushco.

Best of luck, you are going to need it.


Cabrone, Hello from the rebellious colonies.

If you been reading this post, you would discover that there is an internal issue here in the US that we are debating AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH BUSH. It has to do with the EIS and it demands.

To answer your 4 points:

1) Bush didn't raise the prices, the world economic demands did. Remember I do business in your country. You folks have outsourced the work out of your country and gave it to China and India. They are now sucking from the same oil spigot as all of world. And the spigot can only pull so much, so the oil spigot owners say: pay up.

2) Yes the war was crazy but didn't your friend Hitler invade USSR for oil. He wanted the oil field to fuel his empire. And as your oil field dry up, where is your oil going to come from? As Tony Blair on this one. Study history and you will discover what is going on. Remember, your little empire did the same thing.

3) If I not mistaken, didn't your PM Brown go down to Saudi Arabia to beg for oil like the rest of the surfs of the world last weekend? Bush knew it would be a waste of time so he just sent out Sec of Energy to be the US rep on the discussion panel. We got work to do over here.

4) Yes, our rate of consumption is wrong. We will need to adjust and of course we got soft. But you Brits, like I said, you guys are just as "addicted to oil" as us. Just look at the parking lot at Tesco.

Bush don't care about a legacy so end of discussion there. He fights with our congress to get things done, and they don't do anything except name Post Offices. We have a system here that needs work so off to our rebel attitude we (us in the US) go to fix it up. Don't feel sorry for us, we can do just fine.
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Re: Bush Kills off Solar Energy Citing "Environmental&a

Postby yesplease » Sun 29 Jun 2008, 15:37:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'B')ush represents the last century. We need to move on.
Bush represents big money and even bigger profit. I don't think we'll rid ourselves of that in the next century. We'll just see another candidate who platforms on some controversial but meaningless topic that they'll never do anything about in order to get in some position of power and shovel the treasury, either directly or indirectly, into the pockets of the "friends" that got them there.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Professor Membrane', ' ')Not now son, I'm making ... TOAST!
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