[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MrBean', '
')Please explain.

[Ludi]

I know only one shaman (he was trained by another shaman). I think "real" shaman are hard to come by.

Most people these days would think they are loons.

Most people don't want a loon in their community....

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') know only one shaman (he was trained by another shaman). I think "real" shaman are hard to come by.

[katkinkate]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') know only one shaman (he was trained by another shaman). I think "real" shaman are hard to come by.

Most people these days would think they are loons.

Most people don't want a loon in their community....

[MrBean]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', '
')The shaman doesn't have to advertise him/herself as such. The role could be played by anyone involved in the community life: a teacher, an older grandfather/mother figure who volunteers in some community facility, the local shopkeeper who likes a good gossip and is concerned with the community. They don't have to be obvious to play the role effectively. Just be known as someone who helps, gives good advice, can tell a good story, can be trusted with secrets, can be trusted with people when they're hurting.

[benzoil]

Thuja has a point. It takes money be mobile. I left Chicago for the hinterlands of Michigan. I've thoroughly enjoyed the change, and contrary to common wisdom, I reduced my commute my moving to the schtix. On the other hand, it wasn't cheap. Since I was moving of my own volition, I had to pay for movers. I'm constantly finding "farm gear" I didn't know existed (let alone, know I needed), and I'm trying to rehab my old house and barn in addition to replacing fences, refurbing pasture, planting trees, etc.

That said, you don't have to do it this way. You can do it alot cheaper, you just have to do it differently. It will still cost you something, but it can be done. 5 acres and a double wide around here are $55-$80K. That's pretty cheap.

[thuja]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'T')huja has a point. It takes money be mobile. I left Chicago for the hinterlands of Michigan. I've thoroughly enjoyed the change, and contrary to common wisdom, I reduced my commute my moving to the schtix. On the other hand, it wasn't cheap. Since I was moving of my own volition, I had to pay for movers. I'm constantly finding "farm gear" I didn't know existed (let alone, know I needed), and I'm trying to rehab my old house and barn in addition to replacing fences, refurbing pasture, planting trees, etc.

That said, you don't have to do it this way. You can do it alot cheaper, you just have to do it differently. It will still cost you something, but it can be done. 5 acres and a double wide around here are $55-$80K. That's pretty cheap.

[TWilliam]

The primary 'job' for those living in the hinterlands was traditionally something referred to as 'farming'. Other occupations generally included those that support 'farming'. Unfortunately by the time a large demand for the products of traditional 'farming' again arises, it may likely be a bit late for the needed number of 'farmers' to become established...

[thuja]

Actually it surprises me how much we talk about the little rural farmers here and there- the CSAs and all that. They are a tiny drop in the ocean. And the ocean is Big Ag.

It is Big Ag that is going to have to radically change. They will eventually be facing fertilizer andgasoline shortages. How will they react to that? Will they shift towards organic, increased human and farm animal labor to produce crops?

Or will they go bankrupt en masse and sell off their holdings to the little people?

This is the million dollar question because they produce 99% of our food.

At first they will try and pass on the cost to the consumer but at a certain point their model will no longer work economically. Just as the Airline industry is radically and quickly changing, the food industry will go through a massive shift as well.

I'm very interested to see how they try and transform...

[TWilliam]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', 'A')ctually it surprises me how much we talk about the little rural farmers here and there- the CSAs and all that. They are a tiny drop in the ocean. And the ocean is Big Ag.

It is Big Ag that is going to have to radically change. They will eventually be facing fertilizer andgasoline shortages. How will they react to that? Will they shift towards organic, increased human and farm animal labor to produce crops?

Or will they go bankrupt en masse and sell off their holdings to the little people?

This is the million dollar question because they produce 99% of our food.

At first they will try and pass on the cost to the consumer but at a certain point their model will no longer work economically. Just as the Airline industry is radically and quickly changing, the food industry will go through a massive shift as well.

I'm very interested to see how they try and transform...

[benzoil]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('benzoil', 'T')huja has a point. It takes money be mobile. I left Chicago for the hinterlands of Michigan. I've thoroughly enjoyed the change, and contrary to common wisdom, I reduced my commute my moving to the schtix. On the other hand, it wasn't cheap. Since I was moving of my own volition, I had to pay for movers. I'm constantly finding "farm gear" I didn't know existed (let alone, know I needed), and I'm trying to rehab my old house and barn in addition to replacing fences, refurbing pasture, planting trees, etc.

That said, you don't have to do it this way. You can do it alot cheaper, you just have to do it differently. It will still cost you something, but it can be done. 5 acres and a double wide around here are $55-$80K. That's pretty cheap.

[Heineken]

In some ways I agree with Thuja in this discussion.

I could never have "made it" to the country without a long period of city (Washington, DC) living, in which I lived in small efficiency apartments, was carless for long periods, and lived quite close to the bone . . . for many years. I viewed the country not only as an escape from the city but an escape from my job. This fantasy kept me motivated through the long hard slog of riding the subway, working in a sterile office, shopping for rotten vegetables in Korean groceries, fending off aggressive homeless types, etc.

By 1996 I had saved a tidy sum. For a song, I bought a small, fairly run-down house in Rockville, Maryland, just a few blocks from a subway stop. This was in the older, inner, leafier 'burbs, but still the 'burbs. Then the housing boom took off. I relentlessly fixed up the house, doing much of the work myself. I also kept saving throughout the five years I lived there. I sold the house for a decent profit a few weeks after 9/11, and moved to my parents' farm, and continued working my job for five more years as a teleworker. During those five years I was able to save or invest nearly all my income.

My job had incredible benefits, including not only a 401(k) but a fully company-funded pension. I worked for that firm for 17 years, and 27 years overall.

I had lived on my parents' farm off and on in previous years, and there was an apartment over a barn-like garage basically just waiting for me.

I retired two years ago at age 50.

There's a lot more history to this than that, going back to 1983 when I bought the first of the four 6- to 7-acre lots the farm occupies.

The point is that my ability to live the way I do where I do evolved over a long, long period and took planning, sacrifice, luck, and money. Also big help from the parents.

There are many routes to your own place in the country, but few of them are simple or cheap. You can't just up and move there unless you have a pot o' gold or some sort of family connection or are lucky enough to land a well-paying job in some out-of-the-way place.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('thuja', '
')This is the million dollar question because they produce 99% of our food.

At first they will try and pass on the cost to the consumer but at a certain point their model will no longer work economically. Just as the Airline industry is radically and quickly changing, the food industry will go through a massive shift as well.

I'm very interested to see how they try and transform...

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('katkinkate', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I') know only one shaman (he was trained by another shaman). I think "real" shaman are hard to come by.

Most people these days would think they are loons.

Most people don't want a loon in their community....

[joelcolorado]

I think the name shaman is enough. SHAM.....no kidding.